The power of storytelling on your money mindset with Katherine Pomerantz

Akua: Today’s episode on the Unbreakable Business Podcast is all about money mindset. And I am just so excited with this episode because this conversation was so good. Catherine Pomerantz, who’s an accountant and money coach, joins us on the show to talk about the stories that we tell ourselves when it comes to money.

I love this conversation so much because Catherine gave us a glimpse into her own personal journey of her relationship with money and also gave us. tangible tools that we can implement to help strengthen our relationship with money, have a really good money mindset so that we can move forward more confidently in our business.

So if you are somebody that is looking to improve your relationship with money, then you want to tap into today’s episode. Now let’s get into it. Welcome to Unbreakable Business, the podcast where we uncover the untold stories behind entrepreneurship. This isn’t about polished success stories. It’s about the sleepless nights, unexpected roadblocks, and unshakable grit that builds businesses that last.

Every week we sit down with entrepreneurs who faced it all, sharing raw, honest conversations about challenges, growth, and the moments that made them unbreakable. Whether you’re just starting out or chasing your next breakthrough. This podcast is your reminder that you have the strength to keep going.

Hello, Catherine. Welcome to the unbreakable business podcast. How are we doing today? I’m very excited.

Katherine: Thank you for asking.

Akua: Oh my gosh. Well, we’re excited to have you. And like, I’m a storytelling strategist. We’re talking about. Storytelling and money. And I was like, Oh, this is music to my ears. So I’m just so excited for this conversation.

So let’s get into it. I’m really curious to know, especially since this is what you focus on and helping business owners essentially rewrite their money story, what has your relationship with money looks like for you?

Katherine: Oh yeah, my personal money story. So I am a accountant and I, you know, I run a traditional accounting firm and a financial education company, but I’m not formally trained in it.

So my actual formal training is. In storytelling. I was an actress. I was a dancer. I was, uh, I was a very pretentious Artist I really wanted to do the director choreographer thing So I was very comfortable at telling stories in abstract languages. I like to be a little weird with it It was a fun job. I enjoyed it immensely, but it was also stressful for various reasons.

That could be a podcast interview in and of itself. I was not set up for success in that career. And so I worked 60, 80 hour weeks, three or four jobs at a time. And I, I truly, it was like, Oh, it’s been a great week. I made like 300. Which, I mean, I’m a little older now, that was, you know, more than 10 years ago.

That was still not a lot of money. More than 10 years ago.

Akua: Yeah.

Katherine: So. That was my early professional experience, and I was very fortunate that growing up, I had the, I was able to see different people on different socio economic backgrounds. I knew that you didn’t have to struggle with money all the time, and that you didn’t have to work.

All the time. And that even making lots of money doesn’t necessarily mean it becomes less stressful. Sometimes people who, you know, I know plenty of people who didn’t make tons of money, who still weren’t as stressed as me about it.

Akua: And so

Katherine: I just got really curious. I was like, if I, there’s something about money that nobody’s told me.

I think. I cannot work harder to earn more of it, so that’s not going to work. So I have to go figure out what that is. I need to go figure out how money works, and then I could probably help a lot of people. Because famously, other artists, other people I was with, they also were not, you know, necessarily having the healthiest money stories.

So I really was like, I think I could help a lot of people if I, if I figure this out. And I fell in love. I, I had that thought and about a year later I had started my own accounting firm because I loved what I was learning. I loved what money can do and I was just so excited to go help people with it that I, I knew I had to go start a business.

So that’s the short, the short version. I mean, do we want to, do we want to go farther back? Do we want to talk about childhood money story stuff? That all is relevant, but I don’t know how much we want to spend on that today.

Akua: No, I think that’s great. I think what you offered was a really, really great foundation, because I think that’s amazing.

Well, number one, it’s super cool that you just being a storyteller and like your expertise and what you leaned into. And like You know, I think a lot of us, especially when we are starting out early, you’re just like, it’s, you’re, you’re grinding, right? We have to be so scrappy. And, and I think sometimes it’s so easy to continuously find ourselves in that type of cycle.

And so I love that you were like, okay, no. And like, I’m just going to go all in and figure this out so I can help other people. Cause you know, money, like we love to make it, but we just hate talking about it. We hate dealing with it. We hate asking people for it, but we love it when it’s in our hands, when it’s in our account, you know what I mean?

And so I love that you like. Pushed through those barriers. And that’s one thing I’m really curious about for you as like, when some of these money stories that were coming up, that you were struggling with, like, how did you push through that?

Katherine: Okay. So I’m going to take two things you said, and I’m going to kind of expand on those.

So one, we like to, we love to make it. And I said, well. Not everyone. Okay, okay, okay. So, that’s the first thing I think it’s important to emphasize about money stories. Your money story is your internal thoughts and beliefs and actions and activations around money. Money is going to bring up an emotional response.

our brains and in our physical body that we need to understand and recognize, but it’s also very, very personal. A lot of people may not want to make more money secretly because it could mean changing who they are. It could mean changing their community, right? Like who are you to make more money than your ancestors?

Who are you to make more money than your parents? Right? Like that can truly be an activator or who are you to be rich? Rich people are greedy. Rich people are evil. Rich people do things that hurt other people on their planet. Right. And so there can be all sorts of weird story stuff that’s wrapped up into.

Making more money. So the second thing you said is how do you push through it? And I want to be very careful around words like push Because if you’re coming up against stuff like that and you just push on it harder You’re actually just going to get more and more and more and more stuck. There’s so much about our response to stressful situations that we learned When we were kids and a lot of that isn’t just in our heads.

It’s in our bodies. It’s in our trauma responses It’s in our true stress response of our body And if we are coming up against and thinking about money in ways that is activating the stress response We’re going to slow ourselves down and so push you can’t push through that. It’s impossible You can keep pushing but you’re just going to keep pushing with more stress and eventually your body will stop working because that’s what stress Does so?

One of the things that’s unique about my work one of the things that’s unique about the way that I help people is Helping people gain clarity on their past with money and on the way that money was used in their family and their culture of origin in the place where they live now, right the different the different countries they could have moved to The ways that their partner use it the way that they’ve used it the way that their kids have used it Right all the different ways you’ve seen money used around you Unfortunately, it’s not like it’s set out in this big, beautiful curriculum and you just follow along and learn all these things.

It’s like, no, it all kind of gets mixed together in this weird melting pot. And then it all gets like shuffled around in our brain and different significant life events always have a significant financial event. And now it’s all just one big weird mix that unless we’re mindful could start to come out in strange ways.

So for me, personally, you mentioned like, Oh yeah, it’s so easy to get stuck in that hustle mindset. I will default to that still because it was the first way I learned to work was, well just keep working. Just, just, just try more things. Just do new things. Just keep learning. Just keep going. I need to recognize that that is my response so that I can recognize when it’s happening so that I can cut myself off.

I don’t want to keep pushing through it. I want to pivot. I just want to like, nope, nope, nope. I don’t want to, I don’t want to live that way anymore. I literally actually had health issues in my twenties because I was in that push through push harder and keep going. And I was just coming up against my own stress response as I upleveled my business, as I kept doing this like arts career.

Right. And so I now know, I recognize when that’s coming up and I can slow myself down and I can make space for it. So I can start to rely on. The other part of my money story, which is the future I want to have with money. My vision for how my story is going to be different.

Akua: I love that you took it a step deeper because it is true.

Like our whole lives and experiences, our childhood really, truly does shape the way that we view money and how we operate in the world. And that’s something to even with like Unbreakable Business Podcast, where I wanted to bring in these conversations because I say this. All the time that we are more than our business, like the way that we view the world, our experiences truly shaped the way that we run our business, whether we believe it or not.

And so I really want us to take it a step further of let’s talk about how our past experiences, our childhood, um, culture truly does shape the way that we view our relationship with money and also how we make money. Can you talk a little bit further about that?

Katherine: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, why don’t I use some client examples?

We both like storytelling. Stories are a great way to explain. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, some of my favorite examples. Some really clear examples of ways that when we’re not mindful, how this process is going to slow us down. I was working with a woman who was very Her faith was very important to her and serving others was very important to her.

And that was obviously a very values driven decision. And she actually had a lot of success as a result because people loved her back because she loved authentically and she helped authentically. And so she had a very strong network, a very strong community, a very. thriving fan base of people who really wanted what she was selling.

And for years she was plateaued. She could not get above a few hundred thousand dollars. It just like everything always seemed to be working out fine, but no matter what she tried, she just couldn’t keep, she just couldn’t get there. And when we started to dig into, okay, what’s the block, right? Because.

Strategy, this is not a strategy issue. What’s the block? When we really dug into it, the thing that came up for her is that she had never once prayed for her business. Despite loving God so much for this particular individual because if she became rich God would stop loving her Because who is she to make all this money because she hadn’t so internalized her work was for other people’s benefit and that she had to sacrifice and that she had to play small so that she could always be amplifying others, and then that was the good way to behave.

So even though now, as a much older adult, I mean this one was in her 50s, as a successful parent, as a successful community leader, as a successful business owner, That internal message of being a good girl and not being greedy and not, you know, taking care of your fellow man meant that she was doing things to push opportunities away from herself and it wasn’t safe.

It did not feel safe for her to earn more money. And that’s one of the things, I love this example because that actually comes up for a lot more people than we realize, is that as we start to up level, there is an amount of money that feels allowable, that we have permission, that we’ve given ourselves permission to make.

And when we start to come up against that threshold, Our basic human need of belonging is gonna, is gonna be what comes, becomes triggered. You will lose the respect of somebody that you love. You will lose the support of somebody that you love because you will have grown beyond that threshold. We all know somebody like this who like, you know, Oh, I had another woman that I was working with.

Her mother was the voice in her head where her parents were working class And so she and her husband had this really successful thing and while her mother was very happy for her Her mother also used to be like, oh here comes the rich family, you know, like little remarks like that Never really meaning anything by it.

She had a good relationship with her mother, but she had spent her whole life trying to Impress and respect this woman and those snide remarks meant she was playing small because she was losing the respect of somebody she loved, right? And you’re, that’s your, that’s your mother. You have a, you have a biological need for your mother to love you.

And you don’t outgrow that, right? So that’s an example of one way that if we’re not If we’re not careful, if we’re not aware of how this will activate us, when we get to that threshold, we’ll get stuck, right?

Akua: Yep.

Katherine: Another example, actually, I mean, it all comes back down to that idea of safety. Another good story is I had a client who was an immigrant, and she was the oldest daughter, and in the country where her family was from, Her father was a successful business owner, and he made lots and lots and lots and lots of money, but it was never enough to take care of the extended family because more family kept coming out of the woodworks, more people kept putting demands on him, and all of his wealth was eventually lost to other families, family members taking advantage of him, essentially.

And she, as the eldest daughter, inherited that. And took it over and paid it all off, but then could never make money herself. And it never came up until she started her own business, and she never put together all the pieces of, Oh wait, if I start to make money, I feel like all these people are going to come out and want to take advantage of me.

Right?

Akua: And

Katherine: so, not, it doesn’t always have to, it sounds so dramatic when I describe it. here to you now, right? It’s like, whoa, these big epic, dramatic stories, right? Like of millions won and lost. And, you know, oh, we got a little Freudian. We’re talking about like your mother’s love, like all these, like, you know, like we might be like, well, that doesn’t sound like me.

I’ve had a pretty easy life. I’ve had a pretty stable life. Like I I’ve been to therapy, right? I’ve I’ve had this handled. But I often find that we haven’t looked at it from specifically how money has affected these different situations in our family history and in our personal lives. And therefore, we haven’t recognized the ways that when we bring up to make money, when we’re pitching ourself, when we’re trying to sell something, when we’re trying to, you know, convince people that we’re experts, how that Emotional stuff is going to come with it and we need to make space and make sure that we know how that’s going to kind of affect our stress response, affect the way that we’re going to play with this and make a recognize the ways it’ll make us make it harder.

Not that it has to be hard. I don’t think it has to be hard, but if I don’t recognize it and I don’t make space to handle it, I’m not going to get all the results that I could potentially have.

Akua: Yeah, no, I loved all of those examples so much because I think, again, it just shows to the fact of like we as human beings, number one, how we’re all human and it was just so interesting to hear just all the different stories of, you know, I can definitely relate to the last story of just like being a child of immigrants and, you know, it truly is like pouring into the community and family is something that’s very first and foremost before anything and that’s something Though I love my family, I still, uh, poor, but I’ve had to, even me and my siblings, we’ve all three had to really deconstruct of like, I can’t pour into you if, if I can’t pour into myself first, like I have to take care of myself.

And that has been a huge challenge in our household. Cause right. We have our elders and the family and stuff like that. And so I absolutely relate to that last story. So much because that’s something that like me and my sister especially have been really deconstructing because yeah, it’s really heavily in our culture of like you give and give and give at the expense of yourself.

And so, yeah, but even too, I just was at a speaking event and similarly there was somebody who had a similar story to the first story that you shared. And so, you know what I mean where it’s like feeling like, because you know, especially if you are a person of faith and a believer, right, it’s viewed as like, you know, you have to serve, serve, serve again at the expense of yourself.

So, even though they’re also different, there’s still so many underlying things that are are all very, very similar. And the feeling that we all feel is very similar. And so I just love that you shared all three very different stories. But at the end of the day, it just shows how much that these beliefs can truly really impact our life and our business.

But I think a lot of us, sometimes we don’t. Real, we don’t piece it together or realize it until we’re like in the thick of it. And I think we as business owners really need to be a little bit more proactive. And so for you, cause you said earlier, like the last story, like she didn’t piece it all together.

How can we start to piece it together to where we can actually start to see our triggers so that we have the tools so that we can no longer feel stuck?

Katherine: Oh, absolutely. That’s such a good question. So an exercise that I often have my clients do, I call your money autobiography. Right?

Akua: So,

Katherine: my methodology is the money storyteller method.

Money is invented by humans, and humans are storytellers by our very nature. It is how we make sense of our chaos. And so money is one of the ways that we have invented to make sense. And it is in every culture, in every, you know, industry, in every education level, people deal with money because it’s so effective at telling those stories.

So, let’s apply storytelling to this. In a classic storytelling framework, right? Okay. We’ll use like the hero’s journey. Um, you know, there’s a hero who’s going to go on an adventure and money’s going to be somewhere in this story for you. So if you’re the hero, let’s just get clear on the character backstory.

Right. One of the things that I get really frustrated about, like, so I’m an accountant and I’m a money coach. I’ve, I’ve, I think they get frustrated on both sides. Right. But one of the things I get frustrated about with my fellow coaches is that there’s often this language of overcome. Like push through like, okay, you’re going to, it’s basically the implication being like, once you’ve done this work, you’ve done this work and it’s over and you’ve overcome it and now you know it, and now you’re immune from it, or now you’ve, you’ve handled that, right?

And that’s just not human. That’s not the human experience. Your lived experience is always your lived experience, just like any character in any story. That’s their backstory, right? And so the character backstory comes with us. And makes our story beautiful and interesting and unique and special. So I don’t need to rewrite your story from the back.

I’m not trying to get you to change anything about yourself. I just want to be clear on what that is. So truly, write a money autobiography for yourself. I have a list of questions that I use, but some of the most simple ones can be, like, How did your mother handle money? How did your father handle money?

What was the first thing you were ever paid for? What’s the most amount of money you’ve ever made? You can ask yourself questions like, When I get money, I usually Fill in the blank. I can’t make more money because Fill in the blank. I’ll stop right there. I probably have like 30 of them, right? But those 6 are good ones, right?

So like, how does your mother handle money? How does your father handle money? How was the first time you ever made money? Yes. What’s the most amount of money you’ve ever made? And like, for what? When I get money, I usually.

Akua: And

Katherine: I can’t make more money because So, ask yourself, and just, you know, journal on that, or like, give yourself a voice note, or just like, paint on it.

For heaven’s sakes, just like, give your brain time to sit with, and you’ll start putting together the dots yourself. You’ll start to be like, oh, yeah, that makes so much sense, that there’s this, that there’s this, that there’s this, that there’s this. And then I also want to highlight, because I think that we’ve really done a good job of emphasizing the negative side of this, but there’s a real positive side.

So that’s also really important to recognize is that this is never a one sided story to use that and this is so, so common for immigrants. My mom’s a first generation immigrant as well. And so like that idea of taking care of your family, but yes, you’ve needed to figure out what that means for you personally and how you want to set boundaries and how you still want to build wealth and how that should be distributed.

But the value of taking care of your family. Don’t get rid of that. That’s the best thing about you. Like the value of your community That’s so rare and special like that’s something that other people don’t share So don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater Keep the value, identify the value that drives you and then figure out how your money can get you more of that job Without having to overdo it or without being put in environments where it’s not gonna thrive Right.

We could, I could get, I, I’m like, Oh, we can now talk technical and like talk all the different ways you can put money in place, like talk, take care of legacy and investing and all these things. But like, you know, I don’t know if we need to get, uh, get into that, but that’s basically

Akua: great. Yeah. No, this is helpful.

This is very, very helpful.

Katherine: Yeah. Yeah. And so that’s, that’s, that’s to gain, to go to your first question is gain clarity about your care, your money autobiography. Ask yourself some questions with these ideas about what significant life events that I have and how was money involved. Right. That way, you know, Oh, money supported me in these ways.

And money let me down in these ways. And then identify how you want that to be different in the future.

Akua: Yes. Yep. I love

Katherine: that. Caring for your family is super important. So what does it mean to actually leave a legacy of wealth for the next generation?

Akua: Mm hmm.

Katherine: What boundaries do you need to have in place so that that actually happens?

And then you now feel good to carry that forward because you’re not changing anything about yourself. In fact, you’re taking the best parts of yourself and you’re just getting more of that. As you get more money, money’s really neutral. I think we should emphasize that too. Money doesn’t mean anything at all.

Like I said, it’s a storytelling medium. It’s a language. It’s a way of making sense of all the things happening in our lives. So it only has values or stories that we bring to it. So, you know, some of the most generous people I’ve ever met are really wealthy. In fact, it’s easy to be generous when you’re wealthy because you have your, your cup is filled.

Right. And. That’s, I want more of that for everybody. And some of the like small minded, the most small minded, selfish people I know also have very little, right?

Akua: Those

Katherine: two things aren’t intimately tied. I know the reverse on both sides of the spectrum, but it had nothing to do with the amount of money they’re making.

And it’s just you as a person. So I want money to make me more of who I am. And that’s the path I want to follow is that money only ever amplifies. Myself and so I want to know myself well, so that I’m amplifying the best parts of myself with my money.

Akua: Yes Oh my gosh, I love that There’s just so much to unpack and it was so so good of the autobiography like creating your money autobiography like even if you just start with one question and you don’t like it’s gonna lead to so like to places that you didn’t even realize.

So just sitting, taking the time down in like however you want to do, whether it’s a voice note, whatever, and just sitting down and just answering those questions because it’s going to, you’re going to start seeing patterns. And then once you, it’s like the number one self awareness is key. So once you have that self awareness, you’re then going to be able to identify those patterns.

Then if something does come up, you’re like, okay, I have identified this. I’m realizing this is happening. So like, This is what I need to do to stop it. And I think that’s just so, so important as business owners of just for us to be able to take that time to really truly get to know us and also choosing them.

We can create boundaries that are going to work for us. And I also just loved how you stand up like, okay, like yes, focusing on the negative, but sometimes. The things that are amazing about ourselves, like we view as negative, are absolutely amazing about ourselves. Like everything is kind of, I don’t want to say balanced, but like doing sometimes doing too much of a good thing can be bad for you.

Right? Like, so again, really like, how can you like figure out those boundaries of like, okay, like obviously valuing your family is huge and like, you don’t have to give that up. It’s not one or the other. It’s, you can still have it all. It’s just again. What are your boundaries? How can you pour into yourself so that you can continue to do that, but also to still honoring yourself in the process?

So I love that. That’s like a really, really good way to look at it.

Katherine: Yeah, and I think it’s also important as you do this work to tell the story in the most generous light possible where you’ve, you haven’t done anything wrong. You’ve never done anything wrong with money. How many people took a, I mean, like I said, the way that we’re educated about money is a weird.

Mishmash of every single life event that’s ever happened to you and your parents and your grandparents. Cause it all gets, gets carried forward and then just all gets mixed up in your body and your memories. And so, you have not been taught how to do this. So, you’ve had to learn as you go. And so, like, you know, telling that, and not to keep harping on this one example, right?

Of like, oh, I, I gave way more money than I should have and now I regret it. Acknowledge that you felt the regret. Don’t, don’t feel bad that you did it. You didn’t do anything wrong and you didn’t like the experience. So now, you know, next time to create a different experience for yourself. That’s all that happened.

I think that’s really important to emphasize. You know, I always talk about significant life events, have a significant financial event. Easy to think of that in the negative, but again, in the positive, like a wedding, the average wedding in America now costs 27, 000. That’s the average? That’s the average.

It’s insane. I was like,

Akua: I know, well, I know, but I’m like, I feel like when you hear other states, cause Chicago, like the average is definitely much higher than that. So I’m always like, but to your point of like how we just, that’s a perfect example of how we view money. Cause I’m like. Yeah. You’re like, Oh, only

Katherine: 27, 000.

I know. That’s what I thought.

Akua: I was like, Oh, that’s great. And then you’re like, wait, that’s, that’s, may not be for everybody, but how we view it. Right. So anyway, sorry. Continue. You

Katherine: all just learned something about Catherine’s money story. My, one of my personal money story things is I’m, I’m really. Super frugal.

I’m very fear driven. I’m a super saver. Um, it’s very hard for me to spend money. So that’s a huge positive. Huge positive. I’ve, I’ve been investing since my early twenties, go me, as I grow and expand my business, being unwilling to spend gets in my way,

Akua: but

Katherine: I know that, and I know how to account for that.

Right. So, but okay. So the example of the wedding that I was going to use is that my, my youngest sister, whom I adore had her dream wedding in many ways, and it was such a blast and it was a really cool experience. And everyone had to travel internationally, you know, like all the bells and whistles. Yes.

And in hindsight, she’s like, I really, I can’t believe I did that. We really shouldn’t have done that. I, I said yes to paying for so many things for so many people just so that they could be involved and just take part. And she’s like, I cannot imagine doing that now. But it was also a really cool experience and everyone got to take part.

And so that’s one of those things where it’s like, yeah, but at the time. That’s what you valued the most and you got the experience you wanted and so don’t, don’t berate yourself and don’t feel shame because of your past with this stuff. And, and that’s I think important is just, just know how we want it to change in the future and allowing that feeling of like, yes, we want to do differently, but don’t, again, the more we shame ourselves about it, the more we’re going to get stuck and not be able to move forward.

It’s like, okay, I did that. I don’t like that experience. I know that I’m going to default to, ooh, I’m going to feel really like, okay, me with spending, right? I’m literally going through this right now. I am hiring. As we speak, a job posting went live yesterday. Very excited. I am one of the world’s best cashflow managers in the world.

I literally get paid to do this for clients because I only work with business owners. We have a bookkeeping and CFO firm right for my accounting firm. Like this is what we do. So I know the numbers work, the math works, I know I’m going to make money because it’s a proven system. I’m still sitting here daily needing to make space for the fact that I feel unsafe paying for things I don’t have the cash for right away because that was how I was raised, because it’s unsafe to spend, because you have to always be saving.

So I’m not stopping any of that because that’s my character backstory. There is nothing wrong with me. This is a totally natural way to treat, react in stressful situations. So I am just making space to like, all right, I know it’s here. I’m gonna let it all out and then i’m gonna keep working And so that’s, that’s the next level for you is like gain clarity about what it means, getting clarity about how you react to it, and then allow that to happen and give yourself, it’s okay.

It’s okay. That’s your backstory. It’s okay that you’ve made mistakes in the past, have a ritual to let the stress out in a way that it’s like, all I’m doing is releasing these emotions that are normal and natural, and then I’m going to keep doing exactly what I’m doing. Anyway, I’m going to be terrified and I’m still going to scale my business.

Akua: Yes, go me. Go you. Yeah. I love that so much. And so I’m even curious just for you because you said like for your money story is like you have always been a super saver and now you’re hiring, which is absolutely exciting. You’re obviously nervous about it. And so what does some of your rituals look like to help you work through that when you get stuck?

Katherine: Yeah, so I have a money ritual framework that I actually teach people about when you come and approach your money It should be repeated. It should be something that you do regularly Um, one of the things that I think a lot of us do is we wait till we become activated And then we do a lot of self work to get back to neutral and I just don’t want to waste The time so I do the work ahead of time So I come at it neutral and then I can go through the hard stuff fine So that’s the first key part of the ritual is that let’s do that Make money.

My teammate is what I call it money’s my teammate in business. I’m assigning money jobs Let me do enough works that i’m coming at it with that mindset already of i’m a money storyteller Money is how I make sense of my business money is how I get things. I need and want So what mindset work do I need to do that?

So this could be meditation. This could be prayer. This could be yoga. This could be just clean your desk, right? Something that brings you into that zone, right? Gets you in that flow state. Then I want you to look at your value centered business plan. We talked about how important values are to this work.

So mission vision values. What’s your why? Why are you doing this? Who are you helping this could be just quickly look at your vision board read through the mission vision value statement of your business Bring pictures of your family and put them on your desk All right money Then we’ll go and look at our bookkeeping Then we’ll go and look at what I call the money map, which is the financial dashboard of okay for that future money story Point me in that direction, right?

So taking my current pnl from my bookkeeping from my organization Looking at what was my forecast? What were my KPIs? What did I say I wanted? How close am I? How far away am I? Why or why not? Let’s just pay attention to the patterns. Let’s read the story as we go along so we can keep making edits so that those numbers keep going the way we want it to go.

Then, take action, because all of that is thought work, beautiful, lovely, necessary. Do something immediately before you stop to do, to take that strategy in the real world. So whether that’s reach out to your accountant to ask a question, delegate something to a team member, put down more time on your calendar to keep researching something, right?

Maybe you didn’t have time to finish, um, maybe you need to ask a friend for help. Do something that will take you 30 seconds. Block off time keep it keep this ball moving forward. So that’s my money ritual framework I I like to have a list of different like that for that first one of like making money my teammate getting into that money Mindset that’s really healthy.

I kind of have like a list of my favorite things that get me in the zone Sometimes I only have a minute because I’m busy and I just need to get some admin done and sometimes it’s time to redo my money map. Sometimes it’s time to redo the whole budget, the whole strategy. So I might, like, take a whole day and go for a hike, right?

Like, so, have a list of things for you that help get you in that zone and do that work. Before you get into the hard stuff.

Akua: Um,

Katherine: yes, I this is not my first time hiring So I know i’m going to be fine and i’m still doing this all the time because as a business owner You are committing to new and different just by the very nature of owning a business

Akua: Yes,

Katherine: all all this is ultimately is how we respond to stress

Akua: Yes,

Katherine: so let’s have a healthy relationship to our stress That’s really all this is about, biologically, that’s what we’re doing.

It’s just that money happens to be a particularly stressful and emotionally charged topic, so. Let’s give it a little extra attention.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that so much of like, how can you get yourself in the zone before doing the hard work? It’s really just like regulating your nervous system, being calm because when you are that way, then like you’re clear, it’s a lot easier for you to make those decisions.

And I love what you said too, just like how you’re looking even at the data, the data is always telling you a story, right? And so you just have to be in the right space to be able to see the patterns, see the data so that you can make the necessary decisions. in your business. And so I just have loved that so much.

Like, I’m like really excited just to go back and even continue, just like deconstructing my own money story of like how, so that I can show up a lot more confidently in my business. So as business owners, right, we are now working on our money story. And all of those different types of things. And I’m realizing like what you said, this is an ongoing process.

Like it’s never going to change. It’s, you know, I think again, as we reach to new levels in our business, we have to keep doing a lot of those inner inner works. What is the one thing that you have seen amongst business owners that is holding them back from making more money in their business?

Katherine: Not looking at it.

Everyone that I know who’s a millionaire is looking at their money at least weekly. And. When we remember that money is a teammate in our story, there’s a whole training that I do that’s specific about the hero’s journey. But just to kind of like do it really, really, really fast so we can hone in on your question is.

We don’t want to make money the treasure, which is the thing you wind at the end of the story. You don’t, you, you’re not waiting around for money to come because you did everything right. That’s not helpful. That’s not useful. I don’t want to run a business or live a life without money. I tried that as an artist.

It sucked. Let’s not do that. I don’t want to show it to anyone. Right. Money’s also not the villain, right? That, that comes up a lot with the examples we’ve used of how having more feels unsafe because of what it means about us as a person. All that is a story. Just like we, we, we have to deserve our money.

We have to earn our money. We have to work hard for the money. We have to write strategy. We have to put all these things in place before the, you know, before we can launch. All of that is just delaying our success.

Akua: Money

Katherine: is our teammate. Money comes in the beginning of the story in the middle, right? In that training montage section after our inciting incident, like they are here to work as hard, if not harder than us, because money doesn’t actually get tired, money can keep working even when we sleep.

So we need to assign money jobs. So our money has been deployed. It has been spent. It has been used. It is then going to flow back to us. That is how cash flow works. It sounds very woo woo, but guys, I am an accountant. I’m very literal. I can measure the flow in your business. Money can not sit still. It is not a real thing.

It is purely an energy source. It cannot be in one place. It is always moving. A cash flow report, like the statement of cash flows, that’s a big financial accounting term, cannot be zero. It will always be negative or positive. Up or down. Always moving. So you’ve sent money out. Check in with your bookkeeping.

Read your financial statements. Let money tell you how it’s doing on the jobs you gave it. What is the return on this money that we’re using? And so I kind of have like a secondary thing is like, let’s set clear success metrics, let’s give money clearly assigned jobs. So we’re not just spending and praying that it’s going to come back.

Like I I’m all about gut instinct and making things on like, I’m a creative, right? I make decisions on the fly very quickly, but I want to. No, I’m right because my numbers are supporting me because I’ve gone and asked my money, money, where are you thriving money? Where am I making the most of you money?

Where are you? Like feel like you’re doing really well It’ll tell you it’ll tell you how it’s how it is being used and what kind of return you’re getting from your use of it so There’s some obviously like implied like math and strategy and how to do that But genuinely truly if you’re looking at your money and you’re looking with this idea of story in mind, you will see patterns And that’s all you need.

Akua: Yes. That’s all you need.

Katherine: I have business owners that I work with where we do all their financial reports and they don’t know how to do any of the math. They’ve hired me, they don’t want to do the math. But they’ll still look at that number and be like, that number’s not right. I can’t tell you why that number isn’t right, but I have been looking at this long enough.

I know the patterns in my business. Can you check that number for me, Catherine? And they’re always right. Yeah, oh, you’re right. The formula wasn’t pulling in right. My bad. Because Excel’s terrible to update with data, right? So my bad. Let me update that right now. How’s that looking? Yep. That’s what I was expecting to see.

Thank you. All you need to do is pattern recognition, which is all storytelling is, which is all creative thinkers are very good at. And so what’s keeping you from making more money? How often are you looking at it? How often are you asking money? Make more of yourself for me and come back.

Akua: Yes. I love that.

And I just love that you, uh, reemphasize again, that money is your teammate and you’re giving it a job. It is your teammate and you are giving it a job. So as you’re like, even to like, even for me, I’ve also been like trying to also come from a place of gratitude whenever I am like expenses in my business, in my personal life, I’m like, I get to pay this.

Like, that’s even how I’ve been looking at it as like, you know, sometimes people get anxious paying their bills or expensive or whatever. And I’m always like, I get to pay this. Like, I, that is a gift that I have the enough money to pay my bills. That I can pay for my groceries. That I can pay my contractor.

Like, I have enough and I am so grateful for that. And so I’m like, Go do what you need to do because again like looking at money neutral has completely changed the game for me But now even to you adding of like looking at as your teammate. I’m like, oh, yeah Okay. Okay. Okay, right and so like now it’s a lot easier like even for me I’m like, okay, if I was already looking at a neutral and now it’s my teammate.

I feel more comfortable right being able to Pour into my business strategically, of course, right. Looking at the patterns and pouring into my business in a way that like, again, like I feel confident about the decisions that I’m making and feel really good about that. And so I love that, especially as business owners, we have to be looking at our finances regularly, like really setting that time aside, especially if you want to be successful.

Like I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again, knowledge is power. You’re educating yourself so that you can be able to make the right decisions for you and your business. And so Catherine, I have loved this conversation. It has been. amazing. And so I have two things. We love to do a rapid fire. Okay. We’re experimenting with that on the show.

So don’t be surprised if I ask follow up questions. I have been, I’m always like, I don’t want to move on yet, but why? Well, why? And my team was like, that’s not rapid fire, Akua. I’m like, yes, it is.

Katherine: I’ll play along. I have an improv background, whatever you throw at me. Whatever. Perfect. Let’s do it. All right.

Akua: Here we go. What’s the worst money advice you’ve ever heard?

Katherine: Oh god.

Akua: Oh

Katherine: my god. Um That there’s such a thing as bad money advice I know that’s sort of flipping on its head, but I like to just i’d like to again because that shame It’s not good or bad. Is it effective or not effective for what I want right now?

Usually people giving advice. It’s good advice. Just not in the context in which you’re receiving it There’s not enough knowledge about how many works that’s often part of the problem Is that oh that’s good advice for this person in this situation for this thing that they want like so You need to get more specific about your goal and what that How money can be used to get that goal specifically.

I think that’s the only advice that’s useful. And so, although I’m biased because I’m like, that’s why people pay experts like me. So we can customize it for you. But, um, yeah, the, the worst advice I’ve, the bad money advice is over like, well, I don’t know, putting bad money, putting bad on it is like, I don’t treat money that way.

Sorry.

Akua: Love that. I love that mindset. Like even just the way to look at it. I’m like, oh, that’s, that’s so, so important. Okay. The best investment you have ever made in your business and life.

Katherine: Oh, my team. Always. You know, as much as I’m afraid to spend more, I get to be a good boss. Oh, I love it. I love it. I love pouring and sharing my money with other people.

100%.

Akua: Oh my gosh. Love that. Okay, what’s one thing every entrepreneur should stop spending their money on right now? Anything that feels draining. Yes. Love that. Okay. What’s your biggest money flex and what’s your biggest money fail?

Katherine: Biggest money flex and fail. Ooh. Um. Same one actually.

Akua: Okay.

Katherine: Okay. I’ve talked about this in other places so if you want to stalk me and find the whole story you’re welcome to.

But I had a staff member when I was first starting to expand my team who committed fraud and lost us 43 percent of our clients at the time because. Things got a little messy. And that was probably our biggest fail, is that I had expanded and scaled so fast that obviously I did not invite this person to commit fraud.

I did not tell this person to go lie. But there were leadership things that I have since learned a lot about doing that, and I’ve put better systems in place, and so it’s never ever ever even possible now, moving forward. That being said, We lost 40, we lost roughly 50 percent of our revenue overnight.

Akua: Yeah,

Katherine: I was a new mom. I had just come back from my first maternity leave. I kept my whole team. We kept going. I kept investing in the business because I’m really good at what I do. I really know how to measure returns on investments, measure cash flow, like measure what’s working and just do more of that.

So even when I could, could do less than ever in the business as a first time mom with an infant with 50 percent of my revenue gone. I’m still here and, uh, it worked out fine. So, biggest fail is also my biggest flex.

Akua: Yeah. I mean, that is a major flex though and I think again that just speaks to what having an unbreakable business is all about.

It’s like no matter what happens is that you have the value, you have the expertise to keep going and you are going to figure it out. So that is, thank you so much for sharing that. I love that. Okay, last one. The most unexpected way that you have made money.

Katherine: Oh, well, it’s a very recent one, but I’m experimenting with like pouring into my friends more.

I made some affiliate sales. I’m, I run an accounting. Yeah. I was like, my newsletter is like, make any money, because I’ve always, I’m always promoting things and like, I’ll promote this podcast, but I’m like. I got paid. Look at me. That’s so nice. Some people bought my upsells. So, uh, not my, I’m not a copywriter, not my area of expertise, but it was really fun to, it was really nice to see that payback.

And I was like, I’m glad people are finding value in what we’re sharing. So

Akua: yes. Oh my gosh. I love that. And Catherine, I have loved this conversation. And so every question we love to end with is what does having an unbreakable business mean to you?

Katherine: Yeah, uh, my flagship coaching program is called Unstoppable.

Uh, so Unbreakable is like, heck yes, please, more of that. And what it means to me really is having that financial foundation. If I have a stable financial foundation, I can go out and be as creatively messy as I, as I, as I want, as I damn well please. Um, and I think that’s really important to emphasize is that systems and processes in the right spot allow for more freedom.

So to me, having strong financial systems, knowing what needs to be in that foundation for my business. It means I really am unbreakable. I know that from experience and I know that from helping thousands of other clients and, and coaching, uh, people.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that. And I love what you said too.

Having to say racism, but also in the right spot. That’s something too that as business owners that like we really, I just wanted to emphasize that. Like having. systems are great, but also to like knowing exactly where to put the system in or where to refine it. Cause that can truly make all the difference.

Like I said before, like between businesses that, you know, I want to make a hundred thousand to 200, 000, like look at your systems, look at where in your systems can you really refine and make better. Um, and even like. All areas of your business. And so Catherine, I have loved this conversation so much. And this has been so, so, so impactful.

And so for people that want to connect with you, where can we find you?

Katherine: Absolutely. You can find me at Catherine Pomerantz. com and I’m very active on LinkedIn. Again, Catherine Pomerantz, Catherine with a K, Pomerantz with a Z. Yes.

Akua: Oh my gosh. Well, Catherine, thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation and for everybody listening until next time.

Thanks for tuning into Unbreakable Business. If you loved today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs a little extra inspiration. Remember, no matter what life throws your way, you have the power to keep going and your business can be unbreakable too.

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