Copywriter Kayla Hollatz on leaning into slow and sustainable business growth

Akua: Today’s episode on the independent business podcast is just so good for the soul. Kayla Hulitz, who is a copywriter and website strategist joins us for a much needed conversation about slow growth in our business, how we can honor ourselves and lead with intention in everything that we do and how she has evolved since walking through the hardest season in her life and so much more.

Kayla’s journey. And her insights provides a fresh perspective that really encourages us to, to embrace the pace that feels right for us and to trust the process as we build something meaningful and sustainable. Now let’s get into the episode. Hey everyone. This is your host Akua Konadu and you’re listening to the independent business podcast.

More people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process. So on this show, I get to sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs, and entrepreneurs. Hello,

Kayla. How are we doing today? 

Kayla: We’re doing good Akua. Thanks for having me on the show. 

Akua: Oh my gosh. I just want you to know everybody listening. So you guys have heard me talk about that friend so many times on the show where whenever I share my story, I’m like, yeah, that friend that I like found her on Google and 20 minutes away from me.

This is her, you guys. This is me. The Kayla Hollett’s y’all. So I want you to know that. 

Kayla: Yes. And we do happen to give each other the nickname Bait. So if we call each other that throughout the episode, just know. So, you know, the mix of, of friends and business, it’s just here. 

Akua: I wanted to be like, Hey, 

Kayla: I know, 

Akua: but I was like, okay, wait, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta keep 

Kayla: it buttoned up, but exactly, 

Akua: but you know, I’m really excited to have you on the show just to talk about all things business and just see how you’re at.

So how would you describe This season of entrepreneurship for you. 

Kayla: Wow. Yeah going in with a it should not be as big of a question as that is But I think you know so many people probably expect that the guests that are coming on this show are coming in during an incredible harvest season where they are just seeing left and right, you know, abundance is everywhere and things are going awesome.

And I can’t necessarily say that that’s the season that I’m in. And yet I think what’s so great about looking at, you know, even just the, the growth cycle of plants, right? Like you can’t be. In a harvest season all the time and so I very much so am kind of in between Going from a little bit of that barren season to kind of going a little bit more into that planting which i’m Very excited about i’m about ready for that.

But I think you know, it’s so interesting because I’m going to be celebrating 10 years in business in December, which I’m very excited about. So coming up at a decade now of, you know, running my website, copywriting business. And so I think a lot of people would expect that, you know, you’re just on this high, you’ve had 10 years basically.

And so you’re just looking at the next 10 years. But I think there’s been so many different things that have happened in my personal and my professional life that has really just caused me to take a little bit of a step back and to realize, you know, I don’t need to have the whole vision right now. I don’t need to have like the five to 10 year plan.

Um, I think the pandemic taught all of us a lot about, you know, how much things can change. And so I’m kind of in, in a state of, uh, reflection and really just contemplation right now and reminding myself that it’s safe to be here. Even if, you know, you go on Instagram and you see business owners that seem to be, you know, running and killing it and not necessarily always feeling like you’re in that same place.

Akua: Oh, I love that so, so much, like, where you said earlier that it feels safe to be here. And yes, I mean, and also y’all, I’m just gonna put a shameless plug, Kayla’s my copywriter. I mean, you go to my website, I mean, my beautiful website, I mean, Kayla, you helped with that. But like, you truly are a phenomenal, phenomenal copywriter and 10 years in the game and how much you have.

One thing I just love about you is how you pour into other business owners all the time and how much you poured into my own business. Like I wouldn’t have the business that I have today if it wasn’t for you. And I think obviously like we’ve been friends for a long time from that personal aspect and even where it started as business and then it turns into friends and then like we build our business and life together.

And I will say it has been very interesting journey these past couple of years for you. Right. Cause I do feel like, yes, like you were seeing that success. and all of that stuff. And then the pandemic hit and life just happened so differently than in a way that you completely just didn’t imagine to where you had to just drastically step back from your business.

And so I think for you, even during that time to now, where you have, what did that, a lot of that reflection, like, what did that look like for you? I think of it, just what’s so interesting, because like I said, you were, And I mean, you still are. You’re very successful. You’re a successful business. This is not me being shady, y’all.

Like, you were truly a successful, successful business owner. But just life just happens. And I think even that season where you just said, like, you’re finally planting, but in that season of waiting, like, what was that like for you? 

Kayla: Yeah, it’s so difficult. And a lot of that was not only necessarily with the pandemic and, you know, getting married during it.

So turning our 150 person wedding into 25 people and all of the craziness that came with that, but unfortunately about a year after that, I very unexpectedly lost my father. And so that was something that I didn’t expect. And about a couple of months after that, I had lost my grandma as well. And so I think just being on the tail end of so much of.

Really that sense of loss and that grief, it just really caused me to, like you said, take a step back and to realize that one business is not the most important thing right now. I have to be a healthy human before I can really, you know, serve my clients to the best of my ability. And so I did kind of have a year, a year and a half ish, where I went very intentionally at half capacity.

And that was really good for me. And I was able to, you know, heal in the ways that I needed to, and also helping my family through that period of grief too. But those are the kinds of things where, you know, I had kind of joked that after, you know, getting through like the, you know, the start of the pandemic, our wedding plans, getting through moving states and then coming back, I was like, this is going to be my, my breakthrough year.

I was like, Oh yeah, like it’s coming. I can feel it. And so that happening, you know, right before the holidays. Feeling like that time is going to be ushering in this harvest and then realizing, Oh, much like you said, Akua, like you have to wait a little bit longer and that little bit longer turned into a lot of it longer, it can be a really difficult place to be.

But I do think, you know, there are so many different things that in that season of patience, it can teach you if you’re willing to stay awake to whatever those lessons are, because it’s really easy to still be in those same circumstances. and just to kind of decide that you’re just going to, you know, keep your head down and just try to get through every single day.

And it’s okay to have days like that too, but I did have moments where I felt like I really need to kind of lift up my chin, look around me, be present in the moment and not necessarily just look at the season as like, how fast can I just get through this? And instead think about what are all the things that I can glean along the way here.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that so much. And I think I really want us to lean into patience as a business owner, right? Like, I think just your whole story is a prime example of that. I think so many of us as business owners, like even me myself right now, like I am really trying to figure things out and I don’t have the patience.

Like I, for me myself, I want that success now. I want things, I want this show to be further where it is now. I want everything now. And It’s really, really tough. And I think obviously with your experience, like you had no choice but to be patient. But I think, you know, what has patience really taught you about entrepreneurship?

Kayla: Oh, that’s a good question. You know, I think that patience has taught me a lot about longevity. And sustainability. Um, I think those are two really big words, but so many times we look at business owners and, you know, I think especially during the pandemic, we’ve seen a lot of people kind of either change the trajectory of their business, or sometimes people have even transitioned their business, maybe are no longer in business.

And so, you know, these are moments definitely where I realized that instead of feeling like I have to make a quick decision here, or like you said, you have to go after that quick win or the. The fast cash or whatever it looks like instead, just taking that step back, which sometimes can feel like a very scary thing to do, but just to give yourself time to really reflect, um, kind of reintegrate and then start to think about like, what does this new evolved?

Me, because of course, as a business owner, my input is incredibly important, uh, to my business. What is it that I can now bring in that maybe in seasons past, when I was envisioning something in the future, I wouldn’t necessarily have been able to. But I think like you’re saying. Patience goes hand in hand with slowness.

And that is something that as business owners, we don’t see reflected very often. And it’s also something that is, you know, just, just hard by human nature, right? We want to get to things quickly. We want to have that case study win. We want to have all of these different things that we can point to, to say, Hey, I’m good at this thing.

You’re not. I’m continuing to grow in this, um, and we want the numbers and the data to be able to show that, but I think there are certain seasons where we may not necessarily see that externally, and we still have to believe internally that if we go slow and we take that time, that that’s still going to be possible.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that though. But let’s, let’s talk about slowness. Right. Because I think, I think though, just everything that you have walked through, like I said, like you were like, all right, I’m going to like, here’s all the fruit of everything that I worked hard for. And then life happens right with these unexpected challenges.

And then like, now it’s like slow growth. And like, Yeah. Yes, just being having to write and like, of course you do what you have to do when you’re in that survival mode, right? Like you’re just like I’m just trying to take every single day as it comes and do the best that I can but I think also too I feel like With your journey because it’s led you now into these beautiful projects like the three miles per hour like I want to talk about that as well, of like how that experience has led you into these beautiful projects that I think you wouldn’t have, like, thought of if you didn’t slow, if you didn’t slow down.

You know what I mean? And so let’s, let’s talk about a little bit about that three miles per hour project and like what the events were that led to that. 

Kayla: Absolutely. Well, the first thing. That’s crazy about it is the fact that it’s a hobby that I’m doing online that I somehow have not monetized because I don’t know.

I feel like there’s gotta be a lot of people like me where whenever we think that we want to do a new project, we’re like, how do I monetize that? You know? 

Akua: And so 

Kayla: I think that it’s been really amazing just to take that step back and to realize, you know, what are maybe some of the stories that have not only come out of my slow season, but also I would like to be able to, um, you know, start interviewing and creating some.

You know narrative features about other people who have been through slow seasons too Just because like I mentioned we don’t see it reflected enough And I think you know if we try to move outside of you know That three mile per hour pace and for those who don’t know three mile per hour is kind of Typically that average walking pace.

So it’s the idea of You know having really the confidence and the peace to be able to walk through These things that life throws at you, regardless of if you’re that harvest season, or if you’re in a very slow kind of season where you’re able to walk through it instead of feeling like you need to rush or to run.

And even when you think about business, right? The way that we talk about business is always like steeped in a language of hurry. So you’re hearing things like you need to run your business, run the race that’s ahead of you. Um, you know, uh, go for it in the long run, like run is a term and just anything around hustle culture and, and all of those things are just making you feel like you have to have this frenetic energy all the time.

And I think so many of us for a season. Can go, go, go with it. And you can feel like, wow, I see this productivity. I’m seeing that I’m getting all these things done 80 hours a week. Who cares? Like I’m just going after this thing, but I think what we learned again, in the longevity of business is that like, it is a completely unsustainable pace.

You know, there might be certain seasons where you do quicken a little bit, where you’re like, all right, I feel like I’m maybe fast walking right now and I’m, I’m going towards a goal. But then there are other seasons where you might feel like. Myself, where I almost felt like I was at a complete stop, not necessarily, but there were a lot of things that needed to change before I was able to, you know, get back to that pace.

And so I think it’s a really interesting thing for me to also kind of keep that mindset when I’m, you know, thinking about new projects in my business. And I’ve been in even a process to trademark a name for the last two years. That looks like, um, you know, despite all odds, it’s going to move forward, which I’m really excited about.

But in all of those things, I’ve had to ask myself, you know, am I doing this at a three mile per hour pace? That’s kind of the question I ask myself in my mind. And there are times where I can feel like I’m moving slowly, but even at that question, I go, I could like take it back a little bit more, or I could maybe take this step.

Um, so that has just been a really good place for me to be. And I also wanted to ask you, because you talked about, you know, patience in your business and how it’s been a little bit harder to come by. Like, where do you sense that maybe some of that hurry has been coming from? For you, that’s keeping you from maybe responding in a place of patience.

Oh, look at you 

Akua: changing 

Kayla: it, changing the 

Akua: game, 

Kayla: coming 

Akua: at me, changing the tape. That is a really, really good question. I think for me, you know, Obviously I had a lot of change just unexpectedly happened so quickly last year in October, like moving to Chicago, you know, then unexpectedly becoming host of the show.

And it has been such a beautiful thing and I have loved every second of it, but it has also been a little tough for me because you know, I had in my mind of what my business was going to be this year, right? I had these four years. Projects that I was like, yes, like this is the year I’m going to do it.

And now, you know, I have had to accept that I’m in this position, which I love, but I also had to let go of other things in order to make room for this. And it’s been a lot of reflecting because, you know, I don’t have a lot of time anymore. And so growth now in my business. Is much, much, much slower than what I originally wanted.

It’s been tough because I see other business owners, you know, and they’re launching these projects that I like, you know, similarly to what I’m launching. I’m like, Oh, like I really want to do that. And, you know, but I’m realizing like Akua, this is the season that you’re in right now. So like you’re doing this, which is amazing.

That’s so cool. So much fun. But then in order to do this, that you love other things have to slow down. Right. Everything comes at a cost, whether good or bad. Like that’s how I look at it. Right. And so right now, certain areas of, um, my business has had to heavily, drastically slow down. And the progress is still being made, right?

Like I’ve had to shift things a lot. Um, but the progress is still being made. But I still sometimes when I see that comparison, which sucks, right? Like I, I need to take my own damn advice. You know what I mean? Where I’m always like, I’m always like, yeah, stay in your own lane and like this and that. And I’m like, Ooh, like really Akua stay in your, your own lane and like really apply it to myself because it’s tough.

It’s really tough sometimes where I’m like, cause again, I had this vision in my mind and it’s. It’s no longer that, but the new vision that I have is amazing. Like I love that, especially like now being here, but again, I think it’s a, it’s a grieving process, which I feel like, you know, like I’ve had to grieve that, but also to like, I’m excited.

I’m excited to be here. I’m excited for what’s to come. But it’s a lot of still like reflection for me as a business owner, as a host of this show and you know, I’m, I’m grateful. Like I love it, but it’s also still like, it’s hard. It’s hard. So I, I appreciate you asking me that girl. 

Kayla: Yeah. But I think. You know, it’s so good that you’re able to talk about those things.

Cause I’m sure so many people listening can really understand that. And, you know, even though I was talking about, you know, the, the losses that I had in my life, I think a lot of people don’t necessarily realize that you can still, like you said, you can grieve certain visions or you can grieve certain seasons that you.

You know expected to have and didn’t and it doesn’t necessarily have to look like maybe one of those monumental losses But it can still be a loss and and something for you to grieve all on your own too. So Yeah, that’s yeah important. 

Akua: Absolutely And I think for me I wouldn’t necessarily say I lost it and this thing is gone it’s just the fact of like I had a certain expectation in my mind and I think that’s where A lot of having to still continue to deconstruct of like my worth is tied to a certain thing and so that was where it was like The, but I’m like, Oh my gosh, like me stepping into this door.

The vision is the vision is in a way that I just never even imagined it. It’s way better than what I had in my mind originally. Right. And so, you know, but like, it’s hard. And there’s a lot of, it’s been a lot of growing pains, a lot of challenges where I’ve been stretched in such a good way and being more comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Like I am uncomfortable on a regular basis and this past eight, nine months. And this kind of sounds weird, but I love it. I love being uncomfortable. And I think it’s the person that I’m being molded into. I just, I don’t think I ever would have liked the, I like, like, I feel more stronger, more resilient.

You know what I mean? Where I feel pretty badass. And I just don’t think if I didn’t walk through this season, I don’t think I could say these things about myself now. And so it’s been, it’s been great. It’s been a challenge, but it’s been a good challenge and I just continue to, to lean in. I think that’s just kind of the, so that now that has been my season of like, just lean in Akua.

I don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow. Just lean in. Like we just, we just go with it. So, yeah. Yes. 

Kayla: But I think that’s so cool. You talk about the person you’re being molded into and I even like, like the term shaped too, like just the person that you’re becoming. And I think so many times, again, when we are Feeling like we’re at a rush.

We’re maybe not necessarily taking those intentional steps back to really reflect on who is that person I’m becoming and are those action steps that I’m taking are they getting me closer to her or to him or to them? Or are they taking me further away from? that person that I feel like I’m being crafted and, um, yeah, shaped and molded into.

Akua: Yeah. And I think it’s important because like that specific person, right? Because that specific person was going to help you propel you into the next level that you want to go to in your business, right? Because when you get to a certain level in your business, those are the challenges don’t go away.

They’re bigger, they’re badder. They’re just, and they’re much more harder to navigate. And so you have to be a certain individual in order to tackle That next level of challenges. And I think sometimes that we forget that as business owners where we’re like, okay, I really want this now. And I’ve had to realize again, like that, like what you mentioned, there’s that reflection of checking in with myself of like, if I had these things now in my business that I wanted, could I even attain it?

Could I even attain it? Honestly? Like, am I able to make sure that I still had it? Am I able to enjoy it on those types of things? The answer probably now, you know, so it was really of like, Okay, Akua, like, you have to, it’s a really humbling experience, I think, too, of just, like, really having to let go of your ego quite a bit and just really realize of, like, this is the journey that I’m on and, uh, again, of, like, just leaning in and what can I learn?

And I think that’s something that we just need to remember as business owners of, like, how can we consistently be learning? And everything that we’re going through is just information and data for us to carry into the next season. Um, and I think that’s just so, so important. 

Kayla: Yes, because everybody wants, you know, to get, you know, what you’re able to have outside of that Valley season, but nobody actually wants to walk through the Valley.

Like nobody wants to be challenged, but they all want the strength that comes afterwards. So I think you’re completely right in saying that, you know, We are going to go through obstacles. We’re going to go through challenge and it’s no reflection on us. If we’re going through a season that feels hard when we were hoping for things to feel easy.

I know for me, I can definitely put an easy life quote unquote on a pedestal at times, and I’m doing a lot of internal work to try to take that off of that. And to realize that, you know, Difficulty comes for us all and it comes in a lot of different faces and a lot of different ways, but it’s most important just again to be more of who you are, to bring your full presence and, you know, to make sure that you’re not giving up in those spaces because, you know, the future you and the other people around you are, are counting on you to be able to kind of stay in that fight.

And sometimes it does feel Like that in business. And I don’t think people always talk about that. Um, or, you know, we talk about it a little bit later. And sometimes I think that that can be healthy, right? Not necessarily, um, feeling like we have to be so vulnerable to a point where everybody knows everything that we’re going through, because sometimes some seasons require you to have a certain level of hiddenness because.

You really need to work on those things, but, um, I would love to be able to see more people who are talking about some of these obstacles, because I think people wrongly think at a certain level, you know, if you’re in business for this amount of years, or you’ve seen this amount of income that you’re not necessarily going to be challenged anymore.

And instead it’s just, there’s a new level of challenges that come with every single point. So if you’re thinking that you’re going to somehow be able to elevate yourself to a point where there’s. You know, like basically a land of milk and honey where it’s just paradise. That’s just, you know, you might have some days by the pool and you might have some flexibility in your schedule, but it doesn’t look like that all the time.

Akua: Yes. 1000%. I love that you shared that. And so even now, when you think about yourself, like pre pandemic right now, and like your future Kayla, how would you describe yourself then and now? 

Kayla: Oh, then I would say. I certainly have been humbled a lot. Um, so, and I mean, I think that life, life does that. It definitely humbles you.

But then I think there was a certain level of, you know, naivete. And feeling like the same thing that has been happening for a while, that incremental growth and kind of the way that I was expecting things to go. It’s not always the way that it’s going to go. And I think now looking at me, I see myself as somebody who’s very resilient.

Who can get through things that she never thought that she would have to face, especially kind of truncated in about a year, year and a half’s time. There’s just been a lot even beyond what we’ve talked about. And so I think what’s important is remembering that again, if you go through that time of patience and the waiting season, and you’re able to emerge with all of those different lessons and integrating those into your life and your business, I think you’re able to embody all the things that you’ve learned and hopefully, you know, even offer more of yourself as, you know, opportunity of, of service, because that’s kind of what we’re all here to do in business, right?

It’s to serve other people well, but there are times where you really need to be able to take that time, focus on yourself, not in a necessarily like selfish way, but in a way of like, I want to be. The best me that I can be for my clients, for myself, for, you know, my family, my people around me, and that means taking a step back.

So I think it’s just really important to remember that, but yeah, I’m sure there’s probably plenty of other descriptors as a copywriter that I could use, but those are just some of the ones that come to mind first. 

Akua: I love that so much. Oh, this is, no, this, this is, that’s just so powerful because one thing I love about you Kayla is that you truly do come from a place of service, right?

Like I’m one of those people that like, you didn’t know me. I sent you an email. 

Kayla: I did not know you from nowhere. Okay. And 

Akua: you were like, yeah, come on, like, I’d love to help and all of these, and like you truly do. You pour into so many other business owners. And I love that. Not only that just even you as a business owner in general like you You’re the projects that you work on you handle it with so much tender and care Every single like client that you work with every single person um, and that’s something i’ve always admired and I I truly love about you and so even And you always lead with intentionality in every single thing that you do.

Even like when you were writing my copy on my website, it was like every single word, it just was intentional, I could tell. And so, even for you in that waiting season, I’m just so curious, because I know that there were so many different projects that, you had so many different ideas and stuff like that, and like, Yeah.

And you still even led with that intentionality of like, Certain things you let go and certain things you made room up for. And walk us through that a little bit of like, how did you really know of like even the three miles per hour? Like you had other projects that you’re working on. And so now you have three miles per hour.

That’s launched. Like, and yes, it’s not monetized. I have a feeling it will be soon. I’m not gonna lie with you. I just know you cause I know you, um, I know you’re proud that it has been monetized, but I’m like, I mean, it’ll happen. And so, but you also have that, but then like also too, you have revamped your services.

Like, honestly, and. just how, just the intentionality. So I really want to lean more into that. And I don’t even know what kind of question I want to ask within that, but just how are you really like, you know, gauging it? You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Yeah. It’s like, how are you discerning 

Kayla: when this 

Akua: thing has laid 

Kayla: down for a season?

It’s time to pick it back up. So the most honest answer I can give is, you know, being a follower of Jesus and being a person of faith, it has been extremely important for me to surrender those things in prayer. And so one of those dreams that I had to lay down, for instance, was I, you know, all of my life, since I was about like, 15, 16 years old.

So, you know, very good portion of it had always dreamed of building a house with my dad. And so anything that I had done in my business, I mean, I was seeing it as putting some money away. Even my first job, you know, where I was nannying for three kids and they were driving me wild. I was like, I’m at least putting a little bit of money away for this dream.

And so on weekends we would. You know, start to think about, you know, what, what are we going to design watching HGTV together? And so this was just a huge part of my life. And so not only when I lost him, did I lose, you know, one of the most significant voices in my life in this sounding board, but I also lost this dream that I had been working toward.

And really being in that place where you have to ask yourself when you bury a dream along with your person. What what’s left, right? Like what’s there. And so I think I really needed that time to, in a very different way, but similar to what you’re talking about of, okay, when you kind of have a vision that turns out differently right now, I am, you know, in a house that is, that has neon green carpet and is hilariously outdated and all of the things, and I live here with my husband and everything around me right now.

Is not at all what I had expected but also believing that this new thing can be beautiful too And so interestingly enough in my personal life You know, walking this out, it has given me even more confidence to step into it professionally and to say, okay Here are these different projects that I have had in my mind You know for five years or things that I thought about, you know Maybe like two years into business and all these things that i’ve laid down because it just wasn’t the right time And I sensed in december in prayer that it was time for me to pick up three mile per hour Uh, which was a name that I had kind of been tinkering around with and playing with and even just the story of how I got the domain name of it is wild because I had originally reached out for with the number three mph.

com and they quoted I think like over 20 grand for As I’m saying I’m not monetizing this so I was like, oh that was on a A hope and a prayer right there and then had reached out to the individual that had the, um, if I was like, Oh, what if I spelled out the number three and then just did mph. com? So it still keeps it really nice and short And had quoted a price and said i’m really interested in this if you’re not using it And the person came back to me and said The vision that you have for it is almost identical to the vision that I had.

I just never got around to it. So he said, it seems like it’s going to a good home. I’m going to send it along. Shout out, Paul, wherever you are. I still have never met this man in my life, but it’s just, it’s things like that, that I think like helped to give me even more faith and confirmation. That I’m on the right track, because even if that wouldn’t necessarily have been available.

It showed me that even in. Those kinds of darker moments. I still had the faith to reach out and make the ask and see if it was possible without necessarily hinging the success or me moving forward with the idea on that, I still was like, I’m just going to try. And see if there’s something here. And so, you know, things like that have really helped me.

And then, as I mentioned in my, um, trademark process, I am turning basically my 10 years of expertise in website strategy and wire framing and copywriting, I’m going to be turning that into all sorts of. You know, programs, products, different things, and I’m trademarking my methodology, which is going to be wire framework method, which I’m so excited about the name.

And it’s been a long journey, but that is an idea that I had. You know, seven years ago, long time ago, , like long, like you remember hearing about it like so long ago. I mean, it was an idea that I had back when I met you and we’ve been friends for seven or eight years. So, yeah, I think again, when we’re kind of going back to that idea of longevity, it’s believing that you are not gonna be too late on those ideas if you don’t run with everything right away.

Like the what I am going to create now. Is going to be so much more valuable because of the person that I am, because of the work that I’ve done with my clients to serve them than what I would have done back then. And yes, do I sometimes look at the marketplace and see, Hmm, there’s a few things that look somewhat similar to what I want to do than what it was way back.

Absolutely. But if you just remember that you’re not going to be too late to show up and that it’s okay to be going at the pace that you’re going at. I think that that’s just the best way to come away with, you know? 

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. You shared so much goodness. There was a lot, but there was so much goodness within that.

And I think the fact that you said like the fact that you were going to try, right, like, I think we all have so many, but I love the fact that like these projects you’ve had on your heart for a long, long, long time. And the fact of the matter is that you. laid into your values into what grounded you. And I think that’s just important for any business owner to know.

And then also too, it’s like, it’s okay to set things aside and pick them back up because if you would have launched your wireframe years ago, like the skillset, everything that you have garnered in your journey, there’s no way it would have been what it is today. Right. And like what you have to do, like what it is now, especially as being your client on several occasions where I’ve seen those wireframes where I’ve been Phenomenal.

You know what I mean? Like, I think, I think that’s just so again, like with that intention and care and intentionality of everything that you’ve, that you’ve done as a business owner. And I think that has really, truly led to you building a sustainable business in 10 years in the game. And it’s like, it’s like, it’s, you know, it’s like, you’re just getting started.

Honestly. Like that’s truly the way I view it. It really 

Kayla: does. Yes. 

Akua: And so I’m like, you know, I think it’s, I think it’s phenomenal and that it’s okay of like, if you have an idea and it’s like, it’s okay if you feel called to just set it aside, set it aside and you can, it’s okay to come back to it. I think that’s just such a great thing because we as business owners, we have so many ideas all the time and there are ideas like I haven’t, I’ve had an idea for like, it’s been three years now.

I’ve had to set it to the side. I always want to do a storytelling retreat. How many times have we talked about that? Yeah. It’s still, and I’m, and I’m not letting it go. Like, but I’m like, okay, cool. Like, this is just not the season right now for it. And that’s okay. Like, you know what I mean? And I think again, like I’m collecting data and information and when the right time will be the right time.

And so, and I know like when it’s ready to happen, it’ll be like this beautiful thing. And I think that’s like, you’re just such a perfect testament to that of like, it’s okay to put things aside because when you’re ready to pick it back up, it can be formed in such an amazing way that you never would have thought of like, or imagined it.

So I love that. I love that so 

Kayla: much. It takes a level of trust. It really does. Um, you know, regardless of if that self trust or trust that’s acted on faith or Whatever that looks like in your life I think it’s a really hard thing like you’re talking about to step aside from something especially if it’s a vision For something else that you didn’t even have in mind, like even taking over the podcast, like you’re talking about, but just understanding that.

Yeah, I love what you said about, if it is for you, you’re going to find your way back to it. And it’s going to be something that is going to have such refreshed vision and the things that you thought were hard or the things where you were feeling like, Oh, I just don’t know how this piece is going to fit with this piece in this, but.

You know, however long down the line it is, those things are going to come together. And it doesn’t mean you’re not going to have any sort of self doubt. I still have it all the time. And the process of, of creating this methodology and trying to understand, how do I take this thing that I intuitively do?

And teach it to other people. That is the biggest challenge professionally that I have right now, but it’s a good, it’s a good challenge. It helps me think differently and it also helps me create in community again, which is something that was huge as a early part of my career that I’m kind of getting back to after very independently behind the scenes, ghost writing for clients, which has always been fun, but yeah, it’s.

It’s really cool to see the new things that are coming, welcoming those in. And, you know, one of my really good friends recently had talked about how she just gave me some great pieces of advice and talking about that. You know, I don’t necessarily have to take all of these steps right now to get that old me back, you know, thinking that maybe she had a lot more that she knew, or she had more confidence, um, that was really just naivete and all of these different things, but instead I just need to be.

You know, the most embodied person and the most evolved person that I can be right now and just keep moving forward as her, instead of feeling like there’s these other things before some of the loss in the grief and the different things I’ve walked through that I feel like I have to pull back in. And so I think that I’m trying to learn more about that.

And hopefully for somebody listening, that that can connect with them to see that they don’t have to be that old version of themselves. But instead, they can just move forward as who they are right now. As 

Akua: who they are right now, yes. Oh my gosh, I love that. Because I think that’s so, even as business owners, right?

Like, we imagine ourselves as our success, right? But we’ll even like, be like, we’re this specific kind of person, right? When we are successful. Which I think is great, you know what I mean? I think it’s great. Awesome to think of that, but I think a lot of the times we need to appreciate where we are now.

And I think we need to appreciate who we are with where we are now. You know what I mean? And I think we forget that. And I, and I, I guess maybe I’m speaking to myself, maybe it’s just me, you know what I mean? Where, because where I’m like, Oh, you know, I want to be this way and that way. And I’m like, Akua, you are pretty dope as you are now.

And that is more than enough with what you’re currently doing. And that’s something I’ve had to really just like lean into even as a business owner of like. I’m good now. Like, I like who I am now. I love who I am now. And as a business owner, I love, you know what I mean? And that’s what I’ve had to like consistently repeat to myself over and over and over, because I feel like I have to be this certain way in order to attain this type of success.

And yes, like, of course, like life and challenging, like it molds you and builds you in a certain type of way. But I think sometimes we can get in this scarcity kind of mindset where it’s like, you feel like, um, you know, once I have this, things will be complete. And that’s just never how it is. Absolutely.

Kayla: And I’m just so glad that you have been able to take the torch, so to speak, from Natalie, because of course I’ve been listening since the very beginning, and I remember some of the rumbles happening behind the scenes, and I remember some of those, like, conversations where you and I had had before you moved to Chicago, where you’re like, Kayla, can I do this?

Can I take on this? And I think that you have done it with grace and you have done it, um, with just, you know, uh, an attitude of abundance. And I’m just really proud of everything that you’re continuing to do. And I’m so thankful that you were willing to have the bravery to step into this new vision. Even though it wasn’t necessarily what you had crafted for yourself or that you maybe had envisioned yourself But for you to be able to sit there in in the chair with the microphone in front of you and be able to say like This is even better than what I could have imagined it to be I get to be a part of crafting this now Yeah, it’s just it’s so cool as your friend to be able to see that 

Akua: I’m not gonna lie though There’s no way I could I couldn’t have done it without the amazing People that support me at Honeybook like I’m not gonna lie like I think they’ve played such a huge role into why I said Yes, like honestly, let me not tear up.

They’ll be like, oh my gosh

They are truly truly wonderful the team that has helped and supported so much and the show would just wouldn’t be what it is today without Any, any of them. So I think to your point, it’s just like, it’s been amazing. And it’s been all crazy journey, but it’s been fun and beautiful. And the people that I get to work with daily where we’re like, we are able to bring on so many amazing entrepreneurs like yourself and break down and having these conversations.

Like, this is what it’s about. This is what entrepreneurship is about. And it’s just amazing to honestly have HoneyBook support that and wanting to be able to facilitate these types of conversations that I think are just so So, so needed in our industry. And so I thank you so much for that. And like, I’m definitely going to share that with the team and like, absolutely, you know, this conversation has just been amazing.

And I think it’s just so, I think I needed this. I think there’s going to be business owners who listening to this really need this. And so I want to ask you, we always end with this, with this question. Um, well, before I do, let me take it back. Is there anything else that you want to share before I ask this question?

Is there anything that you feel on your heart that you want to share in this episode? 

Kayla: Man, I just want to thank everybody that has taken the time to listen and I just really hope that this Has opened your eyes to be able to see that, you know, we can still show up with confidence and You know still show up with our full presence even in seasons that are maybe not necessarily What we’d love to be able to talk about, you know, I think that I’ve had a tendency even in my personal life before where I almost want to put more of a spotlight on other people that are in their like winning seasons, because it’s just easier than yes, telling people the realness of what it is.

And so I just want to say to the people that are feeling like maybe they want to isolate themselves or feeling like it’s easier if they just kind of pull back a little bit and let other people You know, just kind of take the reins. I just want to encourage you that, like, you still absolutely have a voice in this season.

And, you know, people are not nearly as, you know, scared or worried or whatever to hear about what you have going on because they likely have walked through something at least somewhat similar, um, and will feel less alone hearing. What you’re going through. So, 

Akua: yes. Oh, I love that so much now. I’m like, do I even ask last question?

I do 

Kayla: Are you gonna be like, so how are you winning 

Akua: right now? But a question that we always love to end with is what do you think is the biggest differentiator between the businesses that succeed and The ones that fail. 

Kayla: Ah Man, I mean the biggest You Thing that comes to mind is longevity. And I know we I’ve used that word so many times so far, but it just is so true.

I think it goes hand in hand with sustainability. Again, it’s this idea that it’s not the quickest to arrive at whatever destination you’re hoping. But instead it’s the ones who are, you know, willing to do the marathon rather than the sprint. And it’s the, the businesses to me that have staying power. Are, are the ones that are going to be the ones that succeed, because no matter how technology changes, regardless of what the algorithms are doing, no matter if AI is, you know, on the brink coming for us, like whatever it is, you’re willing to evolve and you’re willing to stay in, you know, the battleground of, of kind of what business can be day to day.

And I think that that really takes a lot of sustainability and longevity. 

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I have loved this conversation. Be , , be it’s, and so where can people find you? And my gosh, because I know what I know. Once they follow you, they’re gonna love you as much as I do, . 

Kayla: Oh, that’s so sweet. Well, um, I post on Instagram just at Kayla Hollis.

You can also find [email protected]. And if you’re interested, just to learn a little bit more about Slow Living and Slow Business and read some essays about that, you can find that at three mile per hour.com. Again, that’s three. Spelled out MPH. com 

Akua: Jack, I like that little, little flair, little flair there.

Oh my goodness. Well, Kayla, thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation and for everybody listening until next time, that ends our episode of the independent business podcast. Everything we’ve discussed today can be found at podcast. honeybook. com. Head to our website to access for show notes, relevant links, and all of the resources that you need to level up.

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