Earning predictable profits through memberships with Stu McLaren

Akua: Today’s episode on the unbreakable business podcast will leave you fired up about the possibilities in your business. Stu McLaren, who is a membership expert and co founder of membership IO joins us on the show for a very real conversation about his experience as an entrepreneur for over 20 years.

And to talk about his new book, predictable profits, which breaks down how to create reoccurring revenue in your business with memberships. If you have never looked at memberships as a valuable income stream in your business, then you need to tap in today’s episode because Stu walks us through how we can start a membership and make it profitable.

This conversation was so powerful, so inspiring, and so needed. Now let’s get into the episode. Welcome to Unbreakable Business, the podcast where we uncover the untold stories behind entrepreneurship. This isn’t about polished success stories. It’s about the sleepless nights, unexpected roadblocks, and unshakable grit that builds businesses that last.

Every week we sit down with entrepreneurs who faced it all, sharing raw, honest conversations about challenges, growth, and the moments that made them unbreakable. Whether you’re just starting out or chasing your next breakthrough. This podcast is your reminder that you have the strength to keep going.

Hello, Stu. Welcome to Unbreakable Business, the Unbreakable Business podcast. How are we doing?

Stu: Let’s go. I’m doing great. Thanks for having me.

Akua: Yeah, I’m so stoked to have you here because I mean, your name has been thrown around in the entrepreneurial community for so long, and so I’m really excited. For business owners, just to know more about you, just your new book that’s coming out and honestly, just talking about as well of like creating memberships, because I feel like I’ve seen business owners do it, but I just haven’t seen a lot of conversations about it.

And I feel like it’s, I think it’s an untapped area that could really turn into a profitable stream in our business. So thank you for being here.

Stu: Yeah, well, thank you. I’m glad to be here and I’m just curious. Are you calling me old because my name has been around for so long? Is that, is that what you’re saying?

No, no,

Akua: no, no,

Stu: no. I’m just saying, you

Akua: know, I’m like, okay, you, you know, you’ve been in the game. You OG, you know what I mean? Like, you know, you know how exactly to run a business. And like, you know, so not necessarily by age, just like, you know, you started earlier than a

Stu: lot of, I am old when it comes to internet marketing years.

I’ve been around, now this is my, uh, twenty, oh my goodness, do the math here, twenty third year in business, uh, and been online twenty one years.

Akua: Okay, now I want to know, how have you consistently, like, through all of the changes in entrepreneurship, like, just thinking of your story, which I would love for us to kind of dive into a little bit.

How have you continued to build a profitable business throughout all of the changes that just occur in entrepreneurship?

Stu: Yeah, well, listen, survival is definitely a thing. Like I, I can count on like one hand. The number of people that had a business then that are still thriving today. And, um, I think a lot of it has to do with adapting to change that’s happening.

Like right now we’re in the midst of one of those big changes, like a lot of the ways in which marketing online used to work two years ago, three years ago, five years ago. Is nowhere near as effective as it is today, right? Ad costs have skyrocketed like the old model of like, you know, buy traffic, send it to a landing page, you know, follow up.

It’s just not working anywhere near as effective as it once did. And so this is one of those moments, like we’ve got to change, we’ve got to adapt. And if you don’t, then what happens is you start to see the results of the business decrease. Over time. And so I would say one of the biggest things, uh, Akua and surviving, you know, for so long and thriving is just recognizing these moments.

When change is needed and then having the courage to like try and experiment with some new things to be able to discover what that next level is going to be. And I just think a lot of business owners, they get stuck in one way of doing things and they put the blinders on and they’re just not taking into consideration changes that are happening in the marketplace.

Akua: Oh my gosh, that is just so powerful of, and I, the fact that you said that you can count on one hand from people who started businesses back then to still have businesses now. I think again, it just shows the fact that it’s, it’s not easy running a business and like you, it also being willing to change and adapt requires a lot of humility, right?

Because I think a lot of the times, like the more you grow in your business, we can, we get very comfortable. We’re like, well, I know what I’m doing and this and that. And it’s like, Yeah. You can’t like, you have to let go your ego because we don’t know everything. And it truly doesn’t matter how long you’ve been in your business.

Like we’re, we’re always learning. We’re always a student. And I love that you shared that. That’s such a great, great reminder.

Stu: And I would say too, like the other thing about you, like you hit the nail on the head about humility. I’ve seen another, uh, ego become the enemy of progress for so many people. And I’ll show, I’ll share with you real quick how it shows up.

So like, I am very fortunate to have. Uh, opportunity to be able to teach literally tens of thousands of people, what we’re going to discuss today about how to grow a profitable membership business. But along the way, like, that’s not to say that I know everything about The membership world. I’m constantly learning to and a mistake that I see is people who may have students who are doing some innovative and different things and them dismissing that or not opening themselves up to learn from those people who may not be at the same income level, but they’re doing some innovative things.

And so like for me, like I’m always like tuned into like our students and what are they doing and having my finger on the pole. So like, Hey, that’s Different. Like, that’s unique. Like, that’s interesting. And then just asking questions about it and digging deeper and having that willingness to learn from people who are at your level, above your level, but maybe are on the rise to your level.

And I think that that’s where the opportunity is, is looking for those opportunities to learn from people at all stages, all levels, and recognizing like, Hey, that’s innovative. That’s a great idea. That could be applied here. These are some changes and some shifts that are happening. We should apply those.

Akua: Oh my gosh, that 1, 000, 1, 000%. I think we don’t talk about that enough too in entrepreneurship, like when we’re going to people, right? We assume that they know everything. And I think for me, I, I am launching my first course, uh, later this year. I know I’m so excited. And I was first apprehensive to do it, but I launched a beta and I actually had fellow marketers in there and it was.

amazing, amazing to have their input. Like they learned from me, I learned from them. And like, they provided me such great feedback for my course, but I just was like, you know, that to me again, that was a very humbling experience for me because sometimes I felt even a little bit insecure of like, well, I feel like I have to know everything.

Like I have other fellow marketers in here and what if they feel like I’m not competent enough? And I was like, they were like a cool, we don’t care. I’m like, great. And it was, it truly was such an amazing, beautiful experience because number one, I met. of my peers that I can connect with and like, continue to build those relationships with.

And also they helped me refine and make this product the best that it could possibly be. And so I love that you shared that of like, just because somebody is maybe not in the same income level or whatever, if they’re coming to learn from me, that is a gift, but it’s also a gift. If they’re able to give you something that you just may not be able to see and feedback is a gift.

That’s something I always remind myself. It’s like when somebody gives me feedback, it does. Dings the ego a little bit. It really does. But I’ve also had to remind myself of like, okay, could like control your emotions and just remember like, this is a gift. Yeah. So what can you do with it

Stu: and what does it make possible?

You know? Yes. That’s a great question that, uh, a dear friend of mine and former business partner Michael Hyatt used, he used to always like probe, no matter what’s happening, even if it’s a. It’s if it’s a bad outcome, like you did a launch or promotion and it didn’t go according to plan or you tried to pitch a client and it didn’t work or whatever.

Like there’s a bad situation. A great question to ask is like, what does this make possible? And what it does is it just begins to reframe your mind to look for the opportunity. And in that, that’s a great example. Like no matter who you are interacting with or learning from or what feedback you get. That question really reframes it to see the opportunity.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love, Stu, I could talk to you about anything and everything. This has already been amazing, but I do want us to shift into memberships because I’m so curious to know for you, why did you decide to focus? It’s more so on creating like a membership based business and educating so many business owners on that.

Stu: Well, I’ll tell you Akua, I didn’t like start out saying, Hey, I want to be the membership guy. Like I want to focus on memberships. Like no, it had nothing to do with that. Basically I had a service based business. And it was a great business. It was a profitable business. It was a six mid six figure business.

Like everything was going well except for the fact that my schedule was not my own. And so, you know, I wanted to show up for my clients. I wanted to deliver for my clients. I was up early. I was working late. And there was this moment when, um, this was in 2008. My wife and I had been married for about a year at this point.

We’re thinking of starting our own family. And I just had this like realization, like I can’t keep running my business the same way if I want to be a present husband and father. And so something had to change. And so I was talking to a friend of mine and he said, you know, Stu, you should just teach other people the things that you’re doing for your clients.

And I said, what do you mean? He’s like, you should teach it inside of a membership. And I was like, what’s a membership? And he said, well, think about it this way. Everything that you’re doing for your clients, you could teach one time, but you could serve hundreds, if not thousands of people, and they would all be paying you every single month.

And I was just like, this sounds like a dream. Like what? It sounds amazing. So this is 2008. Akua, the technology back then was not what it is today. So before I know it, I’m like deep in things like HT access files and server settings. Like this is way above my pay grade and I can’t get anything figured out.

Don’t have the membership set up. I’m moaning and groaning to a friend of mine and I’m just telling them, I’m just like, man, I know exactly what I want to do. I know exactly what I want, how I want to teach it. I just, this, this, I just can’t get this tech figured out. And he said to me. Well, why don’t we, uh, or I first said, why don’t you create your own membership solution?

And I remember like, I was like, is he, is he even listening to me? Like I literally just telling him how much I’m struggling with the tech and he’s suggesting that I go and develop my own solution. I said to him, no, dude, I’m like, I’m not doing that. That’s the opposite of what, you know, I’m capable of because I’m not a programmer.

And he said, well, I’ve got a great developer that works with me. Why don’t we team up and create something? So we did. And a month later we had our beta version, which was the very first version of what then became wishlist member. It went on to become the world’s number one membership platform for WordPress.

Before I know it, we’re powering tens of thousands of online communities and memberships. And before I sold my shares in that company, we were powering over 70, 000 online communities and memberships. And I. Being behind the scenes of that, Akua, I started to see what was working to grow these memberships and what was not.

And from there, since that time, I’ve been teaching, I’ve been helping, I’ve since created another platform called Membership. io with my amazing team, and I’m very biased. It is the best membership platform in the world. And then I just published a new book called Predictable Profits, which I’m very passionate about.

which basically like details, uh, everything that I know about growing a membership and 250 pages. So that’s kind of how it started. It started cause I had a need. I had a service based business. The only way to grow it was to give more of my time. I didn’t have any more time to give. So something had to change and that ultimately led me to membership.

Akua: Oh my gosh, that is absolutely amazing, and also shout out to your friends, by the way. Yeah. Who have come in and dropped amazing, amazing gems, and like, honestly, like, you’ve been in, like I said, the game for a long time, and just to even see of like, the hard parts of it, of like, trying to get to where you are now, it’s not an easy thing, and the fact that you kept showing up consistently, trying to problem solve.

How do you know the difference between Like if something’s not working, how do you know the difference between letting it go or keep going? You know what I mean? So when you’re in that hardship of that, how did you know of like, okay, I got to keep going or quit. I think that’s something that a lot of business owners struggle with of like, okay, I have something, but if they keep trying and trying and trying and not seeing results, so they quit, but that could have been their next breakthrough.

Like, how do you find the balance of what, of, I don’t even know if that makes any sense of the question I just asked.

Stu: I get it. Like, and I would love to give. People watching and listening a concrete, like this is your checklist. If it meets this or this, this, then go in that direction. If it not, I would love to be able to do that.

But the reality of it is, is that too often it’s a gut instinct. It’s like intuition. And I think if people watching and listening are in that messy middle. And they’re struggling and it’s like, I’ve been slogging, I’ve been doing this thing. I keep telling myself, I just got to keep going. Uh, or they’re debating like quitting and starting something else.

There’s an intuitive feeling around that. Like, here’s a perfect example. Um, my first software company, things are thriving. We’re doing multiple millions of dollars. I have a great business partner, great team. But there was this feeling inside of me that was like, it’s, it’s not quite it. It’s like a, it’s like a quarter notch off and I can’t put my finger on it.

I can’t tell you like why there’s nothing like outstanding. That’s like, this is awful. This is why I should change. But there was just something that I was just like, I just, this isn’t it. This isn’t the thing that’s going to like get me to where I want to go. And I remember, um, I had read a couple books.

Uh, the one thing. Essentialism, they were swirling around in my mind. Mm-hmm . And then I saw a great presentation from a business partner and friend of mine, Michael Hyatt, who, uh, he talked about like leaving a legacy and building a business to leave a legacy. And so all these thoughts are all swirling in my head.

And I was away with my wife and my young daughter at the time, and we were gone. We had gone to a, a, a family camp. It was like a summer camp for families. And so we’re staying in this cabin out in the middle of nowhere. And I remember lying there at night and all this stuff is just swirling in my head. I woke up, it was like two 30 in the morning and I couldn’t sleep.

And it’s pitch black. And I can’t turn the light on to read or do anything else because my wife is lying right beside me. My daughter’s in a bed just over there. And then like it’s raining. And so the rain is like pounding on the tin roof. And it’s just like, keep me up at night. And I was just like, Oh my gosh.

And I’m just lying there in darkness. With my thoughts, Akua, that is a very dangerous place to be because in that moment you start like questioning everything. And I was questioning like this business that I had built and grown. And I was just like, why are you not happy with this? Like it ticks all the boxes, but intuitively I knew something just wasn’t there.

And I think the danger point that a lot of entrepreneurs face. is that they only want to move forward when they have absolute certainty. It’s like when, when all the stars align, when everything’s crystal clear, then I will take the next step, or then I will make the move, or then I will make the shift.

But the truth of the matter is, is that very seldom will we ever. Have all the things lined up and the only way to begin getting them lined up is to take a step in a direction So my wife wakes up and she could see that I’ve been like wrestling with some thoughts and she says to me She’s like, are you okay?

And I said, yeah, I’ve just been like thinking about a lot of stuff She’s like, what do you what are you thinking about? And she said well, and I said, I think I’m I’m gonna sell my business and I had never voiced those thoughts before And I love my wife because she’s very patient. And she said to me, tell me why.

And so then I just like unloaded like all the things that I was thinking about. And then she said, okay, look, I trust you. You can do this. We can do this. Let let’s make that decision. And then it was just like, Oh my gosh, this is real. Like I’ve gone from like this thought to like, I’ve vocalized it. And now it’s becoming real.

And then that’s when all the fears and doubts kick in. That’s when like, I was thinking, Oh my gosh, like am I going to put my family in financial jeopardy by making this decision? Oh my gosh. Like. If I sell my company will people ever want to do business with me again? Oh my gosh, like was this a one hit wonder will I be able to do like all these fears just like come flooding in And those are the things that can hold you back if you give them the opportunity to manifest and so I just stuck with that feeling.

It was the feeling of like, it’s time to make a change. And knowing that as entrepreneurs, this is what we do. We figure stuff out. We don’t have to have all the answers. We will figure it out. And that’s what I kept telling myself. You’ll figure it out. And ultimately I did. And it led to all the stuff that we’re now doing now.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that so much. Thank you for sharing that story. Because I think a lot of business owners, like we don’t talk about those pieces enough of like, what does that look like? Especially even if you have like a really, really, really good thing going.

Stu: Yeah.

Akua: How, and you can feel it in your heart and your soul and your spirit that this may not be it.

Like, how do you, uh, Let go. Right. And let’s just see what happens. And so I love that you brought that up because I think there’s a lot of us who do struggle with that of like, what does that look like? Like, how did it is something that I keep going or something I let go, even if it’s going good or if it’s not going good.

And I think that just go talks about the just layers and complexities of entrepreneurship that, um, I love. And I, and I love that you shared that story. So even with memberships, like you have been doing this for so long, what. Areas do you see business owners struggle to really where they are not creating a profitable membership?

Stu: Okay. First area for sure is that people wait way too long to launch a membership. Like I’m going to tell you right now, Akua, you are on the verge of launching your course. Which is amazing. I’m so pumped and excited for you. It’s going to be epic. Yeah. And you’re going to have people that will come to the end of that course.

And they’re like, this is amazing. Now what? And you’re going to be like, Oh, what do you mean now? What I just gave you everything in the course. Yeah, that’s what I was literally thinking. Yeah, exactly. You’re gonna be like, I don’t understand. Like I’ve given you everything. Like there’s nothing more to give.

And they’re gonna be like, yeah, but I want more of you. Like I, I want your help. And so I’m going to, I’m going to share with you right now. You should 100 percent be thinking about a membership because that is a reality that will happen. People will come to the end of your course. They’ll have learned what to do.

They’ll have learned how to do it, but what they’re really wanting is that ongoing support in the implementation of what they’ve learned. And so too often business owners wait way too long. They’re trying to wait till the stars align. Everything’s perfect until they take action and the reality with a membership site.

Is it’s a living, breathing organism. It is going to change and evolve based on what you learn of how to best serve your members. So the faster and sooner you can start working with people in a membership, the better and faster your membership becomes. And so number one mistake is waiting way too long.

You should be launching. If you’ve got an audience of 200 people or more, whether that’s 200 on social. 200 on, you know, YouTube or a podcast or 200 clients or customers, like 200 people or more, you should be doing a founding member launch and working with real people in a membership. And it can and will grow from there.

So that’s number one. Number two is providing way too much content because the natural thing. As we think, okay, I’m going to give them everything. I’m going to just give them everything and it’ll be so much value. They’ll have access to this and that and this and this and blah, blah, blah, blah. And we just load them up with so much content.

But the reality of it is, is in memberships. Overwhelm is the number one reason that people cancel from a membership. And so it’s striking that balance of providing enough to serve, but also holding space to support. And so we have to strike that balance. Otherwise we overwhelm our members and then It’s a matter of time before they cancel and leave.

And then they, we don’t, we don’t nobody benefits cause they’re not getting any kind of result and therefore they’re leaving. And so we’re not, you know, building that profitable business. So the name of the game and memberships is that we want to help people experience progress. And if we do, they will stay.

And if they stay, that membership becomes tremendously profitable. So those are definitely the top two waiting too long and overwhelming people.

Akua: Oh my gosh, and I’m doing both.

Oh my goodness, that was so, so good. And you know, though, immediately as you were sharing the top two, immediately in my mind, and I think there’s a lot of misconceptions. Number one, let me ask this question first before I ask my second one, but When I’m naturally thinking about creating a profitable business, memberships do not come to my mind.

Is that a very typical thing that you see with entrepreneurs and why is that?

Stu: Yeah, people think it’s, Oh my gosh, it’s like this ongoing treadmill. Like I’ve got to like constantly create stuff and, Oh, I just kind of want to create it once and be done. Like that’s the thought, that’s the fear that holds people back.

But the reality of it is, is you create content for social media. Yeah. So why, why do you not feel that with social media? Like it’s the same thing. Like we think it’s gotta be this in depth, you know, tutorials and videos and mini courses. It’s not because that’s what leads to the overwhelm. And so. When you have a content strategy that is properly dialed in to serve your members, you’re not on a content treadmill.

You’re not having to create a ton of content. In fact, you can do it very efficiently. Like one of the Uh, first million dollar plus memberships that we created. Uh, I was in a partnership with Michael Hyatt and at the time he made his living as a professional speaker. So he would speak 30 to 40 times a year.

And different organizations around the country. And, you know, you do the math on that a day on the front and a day on the back for travel, that’s means he was traveling over a hundred days a year. Then he also had a podcast that he was publishing every week and he was publishing a blog post every single day.

So like the man was busy. So when we came together to create this membership, and it was based around his New York Times bestselling book called Platform. He said to me, he’s like, Stu, I don’t have a lot of time, so we’ve got to figure out a way to be able to create the content in as few, like, in the smallest amount of time.

And I was like, no problem. Like, this is, this is what I do. So we designed a content strategy, and Akua, we would create over a year’s worth of content. In six days, because we would do three, two day video shoots, and they would be during those video shoots, they were bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, and then we would schedule the content.

And it’s not like massive video shoots. These videos sometimes were like 10 minutes long or 15 minutes here or 20 minutes there, like, but we would batch produce, then we would schedule. When he and I parted ways and it was all amicable, it was, I was going in a different direction with what I’m doing now.

And, uh, when I left, we had more than a year’s worth of content scheduled and ready to go, which meant if they did nothing for an entire year, they still had fresh content coming to their members. So at the end of the day, like it’s about having the right content strategy and realizing that when you have the right content strategy combined with what I just said earlier about not overwhelming people, then it doesn’t become a content treadmill.

Uh, it actually becomes. It’s something that creates space and freedom, uh, in your business and in your life.

Akua: I love that because in my mind, I literally was thinking, I don’t have the time and I don’t want to make extra content, but I’m realizing though, it also, it’s the same amount of time it does to like produce a course, right?

Like you’re batching the content, you’re pre recording everything, right? To upload it in, it’s the same thing. And so again, you have to think about. What do you value most as a business owner? Like what’s going to, you know, for your time and all of that stuff. And so, cause like I said, I never in my mind thought that memberships were also like the same as like, like they’re different in very different ways, but I just didn’t think that how membership would be, could really drive a lot of revenue in my business.

But I think to your point of, especially, um, I have shared how I think a lot of us. As business owners, we want more of an experience where we’re more together, like somebody’s like not holding our hand, but like we have more accessibility to this person that we’re, you know, seeking a service from. And membership is such a great way to that.

And I love that you share that, like even a con, like the type of content strategy that you create. And so we’re here in 2024. And somebody’s like, Hey, I want to be able to create a membership. What? Oh, sorry.

Stu: 2025!

Akua: 2024, y’all. We’re in 2025. Okay. Like, I feel like with all of the changes last year, like 2024 to 25, it’s like light years apart, but, um, we’re in 2025 now. And it’s okay. So I hear you. I want to, I want to do this. I want to do this membership. What are the three steps that they need to do in order to be able to like, get started?

Stu: Okay. So first thing that I would do is to realize like there are different types of memberships. I’ll briefly go through them. There’s four types. First one is like a product based membership. You’ve probably seen these, these are like, you know, socks of the month, you know, coffee of the month. Uh, the dollar shave club was the, the one company that really made this famous, right?

Like we get razors, uh, each month, but basically they took like a physical product and instead of hoping that their customers come back. They provide it on a regular basis that people pay on, um, uh, every single month to be able to get sent to them. That’s a product based membership. So for all the product based business owners who are watching and listening, like I want you to start shifting your mind and ask yourself, like, Hey, how could I.

You know, provide these products or service products on a regular monthly basis. So that’s a shift. Second type is a service based business. So anybody providing services instead of hoping that your customers come back and buy from you again, like why not set up a membership? Good example is Mary Claire for debt in our community.

She’s a massage therapist. And instead of hoping that our clients come back and get another massage, She set up a membership, they pay a flat monthly fee and they get a certain number of massages that creates, you know, predictability for them. They have regular, uh, therapy and it also creates stability for her as the business owner.

Great example of a service based membership. And I’ve seen this be done in, uh, services like, um, barber shops, hair salons. You know, the ladies have all like the blow dry bars, like those nail salons, like you name it different types of services on a monthly basis. The third one is like an information or knowledge based membership.

This is the playground that I spend the most time in and it’s basically where you’re helping solve an ongoing problem like Weight loss or a puppy that’s wildly out of control are examples, right? Those are problems that are not going to solve themselves So they’re perfect for a membership or if you’re teaching a skill like again Somebody’s not gonna go from Not knowing anything about becoming an artist to becoming like this world class artist.

Like that doesn’t happen instantaneously. It takes time to develop those skills or even growing a business. Like you don’t go from not knowing how to run a business to creating a thriving business like that. And even if you have a thriving business, like we’ve talked about earlier, you’ve constantly got to change and adapt and learn.

And so the skills, we just go deeper in our mastery of those skills and, or. Another example of a knowledge based membership is like where you’re creating convenience. So Tara Phillips in our community, she was an educator for 25 years, specifically working in classrooms with kids with autism. Now, during that time, she developed a bunch of resources to help make her life easier and working with the kids.

And she realized, oh my gosh, there are probably other Educators working with kids with autism that could benefit from these resources. Turns it into a membership. She crossed the million dollar milestone this year. Again, providing other educators and even homeschooling moms and parents these resources for kids with autism.

Or I think of like Bonnie Snowden. She’s got a very, very specific niche. She helps people draw realistic animals with colored pencils. Like it’s super niche in a two year period. She went from just launching the membership to it being a million dollar membership to now this year, like this is her fourth year.

This business will do two and a half million dollars, like teaching people how to draw realistic animals. With colored pencils, right? Like crazy pants. But my point is, is like, if we can teach, uh, solve an ongoing problem, teach a skill, or create convenience for people. So Tara Phillips, the convenience that she’s creating, she provides lesson plans for these other educators.

Saves them a ton of time. They’re not necessarily learning anything. They’re not necessarily solving a problem, but what they are getting is the convenience of those lesson plans. So they don’t have to spend their weekends and evenings creating them. And so if we can do that, we’ve got a great opportunity for a knowledge based membership.

And then the fourth type is a community based membership where we’re just bringing people together. You know, for all the peculiar passions and interests and niches that are out there, there are people who would just love to be part of a community that gives voice to the things that they’re passionate about.

Like I grew up in the middle of nowhere, cows on one side, corn on the other. Like if you didn’t have an interest, Or if your interests were anything other than farming, you were like the black sheep of our community, right? So like, here I am having an interest in internet marketing and people are like, what the heck?

Like, forget it. But like finding communities of people who like share those same interests, like that’s like magic for so many people. And so people are willing to pay to be part of those communities. So product based memberships, service based memberships, knowledge based memberships. And community based memberships.

So you ask like, what’s the first thing that people should do? I would just get clear on like, Hey, does this fit one of those buckets? Right? Like, and if yes, great green light, thumbs up, move forward. Like that’s the first thing. Second thing is I would make sure that I’ve got an audience of 200 people or more.

Now I know. The majority of people watching and listening most definitely fall into that category. So you’ve already checked off, you know, the second bit, third bit now is I would move forward with what I call a founding member launch. And it’s like where you’re actually going to invite people to join your membership before you’ve created anything.

And if you want, I’m happy to unpack that. Let’s unpack that. So a founding member launch is really straightforward. You’re going to send a message to your audience, wherever it is that you’re communicating with them. Maybe it’s on Facebook. Maybe it’s on Instagram. Maybe it’s through a podcast. Maybe it’s through a YouTube video, like wherever you communicate with your audience.

Maybe it’s via email. That’s where you’re going to send the message. And the message contains a few key pieces. Number one is you’re going to talk about the idea. And you’re going to say, I was listening to this baller podcast where this crazy Canadian was talking about memberships. And, and it got me thinking about you.

And it got me thinking like, golly, like it would be amazing to be able to create a community of people like us. Where we can support each other in our growth toward ABC outcome. So the first part of the message is you’re going to be talking about what the idea is and where it came from. Second part of the message is now you’re going to cast the vision.

But you’re going to be upfront and honest. And you’re going to say something like, now I don’t have anything created yet. Like right now, this is just a raw idea. But here’s where I see this going. I see this becoming a place where, blah, blah, blah, blah. I see this being a spot where we can support each other, help each other.

I see this being a place where people who are passionate about XYZ are achieving ABC outcome. You’re casting that vision. That’s the second part of the message. Third part of the message is now you’re actually going to invite people. And this is where, admittedly, people get a little bit squirrely. Like, people, like, start talking themselves out of it.

They start giving them all the reasons why they should delay this. But I’m telling you, everybody watching and listening can send this message out by, very minimum, by the end of the week. But the ambitious people will send it out by the end of today. Because that third part, you’re just going to invite people.

And you’re going to say something like, Now, I don’t know if this idea is crazy or if it resonates with you, but if it does, I want to invite you to come join us as a founding member. Now, my thought on this is that as a founding member, you will get the absolute rock bottom lowest price because I don’t have anything created yet.

So, I want to thank you for taking that chance on me because when I do. releases to the general public, the price is going to go up to X, Y, Z. But if you join as a founding member, not only will you get that founding member price, but you’ll be forever locked in at that founding member price for as long as you remain a member in good standing.

And in addition to that, I want your feedback. Like I’m going to be working a lot closer with the founding members because I want your feedback so I can turn this thing into the amazing community that we know it can become. So you’re going to invite people. And then the fourth step is you’re going to give them a specific call to action.

Now, this is going to depend on where you’re posting this message. I’ve typically done this, followed this formula and strategy, and I’ve launched memberships, courses, software, masterminds using the same structure. Now, sometimes people will say, if you’re interested, comment below, say, I’m in, I don’t like doing that.

Because I have a very fragile ego. And what if like, what if I say that and then nobody says I’m in? Like now I look like, you know, a schmuck. So I don’t say that. I don’t say comment below. What I say is DM me. Send me a DM, send me a DM and just say, I’m interested because now nobody knows if like one person or a hundred people have DM’d me, I’m in control of that.

So I love that DM. But if you’re communicating with people via email, you might just say, hit reply to this email. If it’s on YouTube, you may give a different call to action. You know, you have to obviously adjust the call to action based on where you’re sending the message. But for me, I like getting DMs because from there I can interact with people.

And that leads us to the fifth step, which is the follow up. So it is going to feel amazing when people send you messages and say, Akua, I’m interested. Tell me more. And you’re going to get this inbox of all these people who are like, yeah, I’m interested. I’m interested. I’m interested. And that’s going to feel good.

I’m just telling you feelings don’t pay the bills. Okay. What does pay the bills is when we then say, awesome, here’s the payment link. Now I know this is another stage in which people get squirrely because they’re going to think, Oh my gosh, I got to have a sales letter. Oh my gosh, I got to have a video. I got to have something that explains all the things that we’re planning on doing.

No, you don’t like you just need to send them. a PayPal link or a Stripe checkout link or whatever checkout page you’re using. Just set up a simple checkout and secure that paying member. Now I know that this is sounding crazy because what we’re selling is we’re selling something that we haven’t created yet.

And I know that there are people that are going to be like, yeah, but I should have this ready and I should have that ready. No, no, no. What you’re doing is you’ve framed it up. You’ve said that you don’t have this thing done or created yet. But you’re going to reward people who jump in early because they’re going to get the founding member price.

They’re going to get all the things that you’re going to end up creating down the road anyway. And they’re going to get the benefit of working a little bit closer with you in those early days. And I have taught thousands of people to do this. And I have watched and witnessed memberships that start with 10 members, 20 members, blossom into million dollar businesses.

Like Jennifer Chamberlain is a perfect example. She’s a 50 something grandma. And she was not, in her words, a businesswoman. But she had a passion. She loved to teach other women her age how to paint. So she did a founding member launch. She welcomed 20 members. And somebody watching and listening might be thinking, Pfft, 20 members, like, that’s, that’s not, that’s not even worth it.

Like, I don’t know if I would do this for 20 members. Like, I could sell, I could sell this or that and make more money than 20 members. But it’s the beginning and it’s like investing, you know, in the beginning it’s a smaller investment, but over time it compounds and becomes a very amazing thing. Same with Jennifer started with 20 members.

By the end of the first year she had grown to a hundred members. By the end of the second year she had grown to 200 members going into her third year. It was like a switch got flipped because she, her identity began to transform. She went from this like, Oh my gosh, like I’m not a business woman to like, Hey, I got something rocking here.

Like I am a businesswoman. And in that third year she went from 200 members to more than 2000 and it became a multi million dollar membership. That wouldn’t have happened if she didn’t do her founding member launch. And so I’m passionate about this because we get in our way too often and we, we talk ourselves out of.

You know, taking that first step and everybody watching and listening can follow those five steps. Start with the idea, then the vision, then the invite, the call to action, and then the follow up.

Akua: Let’s clock it. Cause that was so good. I’m just like, that was so good. Like, Oh my gosh. And I love that you shared that because a lot of us has been, even when I launched my beta round, I, I literally had a page, just like one checkout page and I was like, here’s the link and it was terrifying.

I was. So like what you described, I was sweating bullets, but the thing was, is that what I loved so much about it was even like what you said earlier with, you know, just telling people like you’re a founding member, like I don’t have anything yet. People really appreciate that honesty and the right, yeah, they love it.

And the people that are like excited for you, they will happily join. And a lot of the times too, when you are very clear in that communication, you are managing expectations. Like they’re aware. That like, you know what I mean? Okay. Like there’s nothing in there we’re learning. And like, again, it’s a really great, it kind of turns into a really awesome partnership, right?

Like you’re providing this really great content. You’re giving me this feedback. Right. And it just, again, like that’s kind of what happened in my beta. That was such an amazing, amazing thing. So I just want to even just add to that, just encourage business owners that like, you can do this. You do not have to have X, Y, Z, everything laid out as long as you have the basics.

And like, and if you are a business owner that’s been in business for a while, you have the knowledge. That’s the thing. You already have everything that you need to be able to start a membership. Like it is absolutely, absolutely doable. Especially now after everything you’ve just shared today.

Stu: Yeah. Well, and, and I would just say like, like, can we talk about the elephant in the room?

Yeah. What if you put out this founding member launch message and nobody expresses interest. Like, let’s just, let’s just talk about it. You know, because, hey, I would love to say that Stu’s five part message is going to work 100 percent of the time and you’re going to welcome all these founding members. I would love to say that, but the reality of it is, is that sometimes you’re going to put this message out and it’s going to be crickets.

And so here’s the thought that I want to leave with everybody as it relates to that though. So what? You didn’t create anything. You didn’t spend any time, energy or money creating something that people didn’t want. So it’s not cost you a lot, but what you have done. In the words of the great Nelson Mandela, he said, I never lose.

I either win or I learn. And so we’re either going to win and we’re going to welcome founding members or we’re going to learn. And what we’ve learned in that moment is that what we are thinking the market wants is out of alignment with what they really want. And so we just got to go back to the drawing board and adjust our messaging and find out.

Why were we out of alignment or where were we out of alignment? And isn’t it better to find that out before you go spend a whole bunch of time, energy and effort in creating something. And so that’s my, you know, counter to like, what if nobody signs up? It’s like, that’s a good thing. You’ve just moved yourself forward in the progress train by learning that you’re out of alignment, get an alignment, go back out and away you go.

Akua: Oh my gosh. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for addressing that, because it is something that we don’t think about, uh, when we’re in the midst of it, right? Because again, we’re so nervous, like, our emotions, they overtake, and you just, you know, you’re like, oh my, like, you’re just so focused on getting somebody, and the possibility of you not getting anybody is absolutely there.

And I love that, again, it’s like, you are learning from it. And the, like, I am teaching a, a master class. I decided to poll people, because I was like, let me just kind of see, like, where people are at. Uh, what I had thought was completely opposite. And I was like, Thank you. Right. And I just took that data to apply it.

And so your audience, they will tell you even like, right. There’s no problem, no, nothing wrong in asking or like any actions that they do or don’t take, that is a learning opportunity for you to really figure out like what you said, like what’s going to align with your audience. And so I like, this has been absolutely amazing.

And obviously you have your book that teaches business owners, how to create a profitable membership. And I’m so curious to know about like essentially. What moment where just like really inspires you? Like, all right, this needs to be like in a book now.

Stu: Well, I am really proud of this book. It’s called predictable profits and I’ve poured my heart and soul into it.

And it’s everything that I know about launching and growing a profitable membership in 250 pages. This will be the best 30 investment that anybody makes in their business. And the reason that I wanted to put this Into a book format is I am passionate about helping other business owners. Like I was looking at some stats recently, Akua, that were like really eyeopening.

And, um, I was looking at the, the price of different things and how it’s gone up considerably since. 25 years ago. So if we took like what things cost in 2000 and compared it to, you know, where we are today, it’s dramatically different. So like, as an example, like Salaries in the U. S. have gone up 77 percent from 2000 to today.

But housing prices have gone up 172%. And people might be saying, yeah, but I rent. Okay, well rent has gone up 65%, right? Groceries have doubled. Childcare is nearly 16, 000 per year. The average healthcare cost in the States is 13, 000 per year per person. Like What we’re making has gone up a little, but what things cost has gone up a lot.

Then as business owners. That’s just like the tip of the iceberg because as business owners, now you have those increasing costs and now you’ve got pressure because you’ve got people on your team who are like experiencing these increased costs and they’re coming to you and they’re wanting an increase in salary.

And the fact of the matter is you probably have not raised your prices to match these increased costs. And so the money’s just not there. And so the number one stress for all business owners, it doesn’t matter what market or industry, the number one stress point is finances. Like where’s the money going to come from?

And so that’s why I wrote this book. I am passionate about this book because if people have recurring revenue in their business, they don’t experience that stress because we don’t have to hope that people come back and buy from us. We know with certainty, That they will be paying us at the beginning of every month.

And so we don’t have to hope that a promotion goes well, because we’ll know with certainty that we’re going to be getting paid from our clients and customers. And one of the questions you asked at the very beginning was like, Stu, how have you survived all this time? I’ll tell you one of my secrets. We have multiple streams.

Of recurring revenue, multiple streams of recurring revenue. Here’s what that does as a business owner. It means that we have the freedom to be able to experiment. It means that we can try different types of promotions. And if a promotion flops, the business doesn’t go under because the business isn’t dependent on any one launch or promotion or client, because no matter what, every single month.

We have multiple streams of recurring revenue coming into the business that creates stability. That gives us as a business owner confidence to be able to spend on our marketing, to hire when we need to hire, to experiment and try different things. That’s what I want for more business owners. That’s why I’m passionate about this book, predictable profits, and that’s why everybody should go get a copy today.

I’m gonna get a copy.

Akua: Like, no, this is absolutely phenomenal. And I love that because we actually launched, um, our 2025 growth guide. And we surveyed, um, a whole bunch of marketers about essentially like, what are they doing in order to make six figures or more in their business? And heavily, a lot of it was.

Passive income, like various different types of passive income, including memberships. And so business owners, I do think if like you guys are like, I’m trying to think of other passive income streams, membership is definitely going to be your next best step. And that book, absolutely, definitely get that in your hands.

And so Stu, I have loved this conversation. Loved it. Where do you see the future of entrepreneurship going?

Stu: Wow. Um, I think it’s changing rapidly right before our very eyes. And, um, one of the conversations that my two business partners and I had literally this week was talking about, um, AI for sure, like AI is woven into everything that we do.

It’s actually a big part of our membership platform at membership. io. But taking that a step further is just talking about how as a team. We can embrace what are now AI agents, meaning like my simple Stu brain has a hard time, you know, you know, understanding all the complexities of what is possible. But the way I think about it is like an AI agent is like an assistant that specializes in a particular thing.

And the way these AI agents are working is that these assistants can work together. So here’s a simple example. Like maybe you have an assistant that specializes in coming up with ideas. For social media content that then gets handed off to the second assistant who specializes in creating that content That may then get handed off to the third assistant which specializes in producing the graphics or video for that content Which then gets handed off to the final assistant which specializes in publishing that content that can all be automated or research that can be automated like my business partners were telling me how In real time, when I’m live on a zoom and we have thousands of people on that call, the AI agents are doing background research on all the people that are on that call.

Wow. And so real time, I’m getting a report of like the industries that people are in, the audiences, and I can now adjust my presentation on the fly based on the research that’s happening real time, thanks to AI agents. So what does this mean for us as business owners? Well, number one, there’s more opportunity than ever.

To be able to utilize these AI agents and here’s the magic, it’s the opportunity to free up time so that we can invest our humanness in connecting with our audience and with our people in a way That people who are just using AI and automations to just like eliminate workload. And it’s like, okay, now we’re going and sipping, you know, drinks by the pool.

No, no, no. Like what it’s doing is it’s freeing up time. And I want to encourage everybody the big opportunities to use that time. To have more personal interactions with people. That’s how you’re going to separate yourself. So when everybody else is just using AI to automate stuff and it’s feeling very robotic and bland, you however, are using it to streamline your processes so that you have more time to add the human layer and the human touch and everything you do.

That’s the biggest opportunity that I see right now for us as entrepreneurs is using the tools to streamline the process so that it frees up time for us to be more human.

Akua: Oh my gosh, I love that. And that’s such a great way to look at it is that AI is truly your assistant. It’s this companion that literally, again, a lot gives you the room to add that human touch.

It’s there to support you to, so that you can be like, again, Give that human touch into your business because I think a lot of us, we keep viewing it as AI is removing that human aspect of it because I think a lot of us like, okay, like, we’re like, yeah, like, you know, it can send an email for me, like those simplistic things, but I do think to your point that AI is going to play an even bigger role in our businesses, assisting us on various tasks.

Um, again, to really make more space for us in our business to do the things that bring us joy and to be able to continue to drive those connections because that at the end of the day is what’s going to help you create a sustainable business. That human aspect that those connections and look at the beauty of AI, of like how it’s giving you more space to do that.

And so I love that you shared that because I think that’s so important.

Stu: And more space for like taking the mundane moments and making them magical. You know, like one of the things that I would love to leave everybody with is to just take inventory of like the mundane moments in any transaction or experience that you have with your customers, and then ask yourself and challenge yourself, like, how could we make this magical?

And here’s a couple, here’s a couple examples. Somebody signs up for your email list, the thank you page. That’s a, that’s a moment right there. Like, or the message that the first message that they get from you, how could you make that magical? Or like for me, like when somebody buys our product, the thank you page, we go all out in creating like these crazy over the top.

Thank you videos because What I want people to feel is like that’s the moment that they have just purchased from us And that is the most vulnerable moment because in that moment They’re like did I make the right decision like they’re having that buyer’s remorse like right away And so one of the best things that you can do is make that moment Which is normally just like a, Hey, thank you for purchasing our product.

You’ll be able to get your details sent to you via email. Like that’s very mundane, very regular. You know, why not like jazz it up? Why not make it fun? Why not make it entertaining? Why not make it, you know, a moment that they remember and share with others. And so there are many of these mundane moments that we have in our business.

And when you’ve freed up that time, you now have time to be more creative in injecting that humanness that we’re talking about across everything that we do in the things that we create, in the way that we interact, in sending, you know, personalized, you know, thank you notes, shooting a quick voice message, like all of these touches, they go a long way because nobody’s doing them.

And so. Uh, to me, we live in a really wonderful time right now because there’s so many incredible tools and technology and advancements that free up time. And my encouragement is to use that time to separate yourself from everybody else by adding those. Magical human moments.

Akua: Oh my gosh. Love that. Cause it’s all in the details.

It’s always all in the details. Those little tiny moments just truly helps you stand out in such like a saturated market because every, I feel like entrepreneurs, like there’s so many business owners doing so many incredible things. And again, it’s like that human aspect, who you are, your gifts, how you show up, how you, um, the client experience that you offer is truly what sets you apart from everybody else.

And so I love that. And so one final question that we love to end with on the show is what does having an unbreakable business. Mean to you?

Stu: Well, um, my wife and I, we count our blessings, uh, virtually every single night. We have two kids, you know, my daughter is turning 14 this year. Uh, our adopted son, Sam, uh, who we adopted from South Africa, he’s turning 11 this year and I’m just watching these years go by.

And, you know, a friend of mine, Jim Shields, he wrote a book called 18 summers. And the premise of it is that we’ve got 18 summers with our kids. And so when I think about. My daughter, Marla, like I’ve got, you know, less than one hand left with, you know, and time is flying. And so when I think about like an unbreakable business, like I’m so incredibly grateful for the business that we’ve built because it creates time.

To be able to spend with the people that matter most. And I think about like how that business has afforded me the flexibility and time to just pour into my kids so that when they come home from school, like I’m dad, I’m here, I’m available. Like that I am, they see me more. Then if I were, you know, working a nine to five and stuck on traffic and all the things they, we get to experience an incredible life, but beyond that, like the other thing that I’m really passionate about is this picture right here.

So my wife and I started our own nonprofit 17 years ago, where we built schools in Kenya. Oh my gosh. Yes. We’ve now built 16 schools. We’re working on our 17th this year. And those schools provide education for more than 5, 000 plus kids. And this picture is my wife and I opening our most recent school with the president of Kenya.

Like that’s insanity, but that’s made possible because of our business, our business, you know, when you have a business that makes money, you can sometimes feel guilty about that. Like I did, I, for a long time, was stuck and couldn’t get beyond a certain threshold in my business. Cause I felt guilty about all the money I was making.

But one of the things I’m so grateful for is my wife opened my eyes to the fact that, listen, as entrepreneurs, we have this incredible opportunity. Because the more money we make, the more impact we can have. You know, the more money you make, the more good you can do. You can pour that good into causes that you’re passionate about.

You can pour it into like treating the people that matter most, like in a super special way. We do something as a family where we create what we call super surprises, where we pick a loved one and we create an experience of a lifetime that they can never do for themselves. You can’t do that if you don’t have.

Yeah. So that’s why I’m passionate about being an entrepreneur and I’m so incredibly grateful and why, you know, I wrote this book is cause I want more entrepreneurs to be able to give more to the people and causes that they’re passionate about and to live the lives that they dreamed of when they started the business.

And so at the end of the day, like being an entrepreneur is, is a tremendous gift and having this opportunity is a tremendous gift. And I’ll never take that for granted.

Akua: Oh, oh my gosh. Just the perfect way to end this episode. Like I am number one on fire. Like I’m just like, I’m about to go start my membership right now.

Oh my gosh. I know. I know. I’m like, okay, that’s step number two. But just overall though, like, it’s just amazing to see the impact that you are making beyond yourself. Right. And I love that. Like, I think we forget sometimes like, of course we want to make it, have a business to be profitable, but like, there’s nothing wrong with making more money because.

What it can do, the lives that it can change, the impact that you can make. And that is just such an amazing reminder of like, you are literally building schools in Kenya. Like that is phenomenal. The impact that you are making that just goes beyond yourself. And I think again, it just gives That meaning about what entrepreneurship is all about, about how we have, have literally stepped up and do the unthinkable.

I think a lot of us forget of how hard it is to start a business. Like we did something so brave and we have built something amazing so that we can be able to impact others to do the same. And that’s just what entrepreneurship is all about. And so thank you. Thank you so much. Oh, sorry. Go on. Yes.

Anything else you want to

Stu: say? We figure it out. That’s what we do is figure it out. And uh, I just want to encourage everybody watching, listening, because listen, you hit the nail right on the head, Akua. Like starting a business is the hardest thing, but once you’ve started it, like now it’s just about continuing to solve problems, to level up and to continuing to serve at a higher and higher level.

And it’s the greatest gift that any of us could ever have. So everybody’s done the hard thing. Now it’s just about like how, you know, it’s running downhill from here. Let’s just keep it going. Let’s keep the momentum going.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that. You’ve already done the hard thing. And that’s such a great reminder.

Oh, so thank you so much for joining us on the unbreakable business podcast. Like this has been such a phenomenal, phenomenal conversation for business owners who want to support you. Obviously you guys will be linking your book in the show notes, but for people that want to connect with you, where can they find you?

Stu: Uh, best places on Instagram. It’s my name, Stu McLaren. That’s where I hang out. That’s where I share. I am active in my. DM. So people hit me up, but, uh, yeah, that and, or my website, which is the easiest URL to remember it is stew. me, S T U. me. So that’s where you can find all the things, but, uh, thank you so much for having me.

It was awesome.

Akua: Oh

Stu: my

Akua: gosh. Thank you. Thank you. And for everybody listening until next time, thanks for tuning into unbreakable business. If you loved today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs a little extra inspiration. Remember, no matter what life throws your way, you have the power to keep going and your business can be unbreakable too.

Until next time, keep building, keep growing, and stay unbreakable.