How listening to your clients drives intentional growth with Jenny Mac

Akua: Hey everyone. This is your host, Akua Kanadu, and you’re listening to the Independent Business Podcast. More people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process. So on this show, I get to sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs, and creators to break down the signs of self made success so that you can achieve it too.

Oh,

Jennifer, how are we

Jenny: doing? Good, Akua. It’s great to see you.

Akua: Great to see you as well. I’m, I’m looking forward to this conversation because, you know, what I heard through the grapevine is that you’re a good time. So we’re going to have a good time during this episode. Okay. Exactly. I am, you know, I want to kick things off because you, I feel like have a very unique business and I’m assuming that the, from the pandemic shaped that, but I just want to hear from you of when was that moment for you?

Walk us through that journey of when you had this moment of like, elopement, like helping couples elope in New York. Like this is it. This is what I want to hone in on. What was that process like for you?

Jenny: So we actually, we’ve been in the game, the elopement game for a while before pandemic. I mean, I totally agree.

Pandemic really changed the landscape of, you know, weddings and a lot of other things in general, but you know, kind of where my elopement. Journey started was, um, so I’m a photographer. I started eloping as fun, which is a full service, uh, elopement packages company. I mean, that’s not the sexiest way to describe it, but that’s like what it is.

So we do photography, efficient and planning. So I started it as a photographer. I started my kind of. life and career as a photographer in New York City, doing editorial and photojournalism in the 2000s. So, uh, I was doing that and, you know, a few years into that, I discovered weddings. Um, a lot of the. for, you know, a lot of the photo editors and art directors that I was working with just kind of asked me like, Hey, like we love your work and you’ve got like this really fun personality.

Would you like to photograph my wedding? And I’m like, sure, I’ll give it a shot. You know, I’ll try, I’ll try it. And once I did it, it just, it really. Clicked. I really was like, okay, this is my thing. Like, this is a lot of fun. Like I can, I can do a lot here. I can, you know, create a lot. So I started doing weddings and early on in that, you know, my wedding photography business, I started to Come across couples who wanted to elope.

So that’s when it started. So we started eloping as fun, like 12 years ago. So we were kind of like elopement pioneers, you know? Yes.

Akua: Yeah.

Jenny: So, but I will say yes, the, the pandemic and eloping, I mean, we are in like a boom time for elopements now, which I’m really happy about for people out there who are getting married, of course, that there’s just more.

There’s more options for them,

Akua: you know, absolutely. I think you’re a testament to of, because you guys have been doing this for 12 years and of course you knew that there was a need, but I think it just goes to show that to really lean into what it is that you want to do. And like, even if you’re the only one that’s doing it, because your time is going to come, right?

Like obviously you had a very successful business before and then the pandemic hit and really just shifted. A lot of things were like, you know, You became that go to person. And I think that just speaks to the fact of like honing in on your craft, doing what you love and leaning in. Even if you don’t see what you, even though what you’re doing is totally different from what everybody else is doing.

And I love that.

Jenny: Yeah, absolutely. It’s really fun. And it’s so true. Like you totally said it, like doing what you want to do and believing in what you want to do. Like, we’ll always, you’ll always get there. Do you know what I mean? Like, Um, and it’s not like it was just me. It’s like, I was seeing that there were clients, there were couples out there who didn’t want this traditional.

Wedding mold. And I was like, okay, what, you know, what can we do? Like, let’s explore that. Let’s let’s see what we can do with that. You know? So like, I honestly like really attribute eloping is fun to these clients who are like reaching out to me and like finding Jenny and being like, Wow. Your wedding photography.

It’s like, not like this other stuff that we’ve seen. It’s a little more like edgy and fun and punky. And I’m like, you got it, you know, so that was kind of where it all started, you know?

Akua: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that. And you know, I’m really, I feel like that’s a really good like, segue into, you know, just really talking about the power of listening.

And, you know, I think all of us naturally as human beings, we’re like, yeah, like I listen, right. But I feel like there’s ways that we can really improve. And so for you, who’ve been 12 years into the game, how has listening really shaped your business? Where are those moments where, you You know, really listening, whether that is to clients or industry or however, has really paid off for you.

Jenny: Yes. That’s a good question. Um, I love, I love talking about this cause I do feel, you know, I always say like when I kind of break it down, I say like my entrepreneurial superpower is listening, you know, because it’s like the whole eloping thing. Like when I did start it, it was, you know, there was just a couple.

People kind of coming and being like, yeah, we want to do something different. And so I did start off, you know, eloping is usually associated with, you know, city hall, which of course, like what we’re doing is bringing eloping out of city hall. No offense to city hall. San Francisco I hear has a nice one, but as far as New York, we’ll take you much better places.

So, you know, just watching couples through this journey. Um, and, you know, we started off at city hall and, and doing elopements there. And I could see that there was just frustration there because people, you know, didn’t, Want to do the crazy wedding thing because weddings let’s be honest have gotten a bit out of control I mean if you want to do that, you know what you’re getting into and Have fun, you know, like if you don’t want to do that, you know, there, there needs to be these other options.

So, you know, I would see couples kind of struggling with the whole, you know, city hall set up. And that’s when I decided to kind of bring in a fish and it’s like, okay, let’s do this outside of city hall. You know, like, let’s make this, Whole thing like just super easy and inclusive because that’s what people were looking for They wanted to get married and they wanted it to be easy So I was just kind of just always getting that feedback from people and seeing like what is in my power?

to be able to kind of serve People where they’re at. And that’s kind of where it all came together. And it’s obviously been going strong for a while, and it’s still, it’s still evolving because now, as you mentioned in the beginning, you know, pandemic kind of elopements blew up. And I think now what I’m seeing is that, you know, people know that’s like a A very viable option, but people still want a bit of the wedding.

So, so we’re in this whole like micro wedding slash destination wedding time. So we’ve started to really focus on, on that and really help couples, you know, have this really kind of seamless, easy experience in New York city. you know, that’s a little more in depth than just like a quickie elopement, you know?

Um, so yeah, I mean, that’s just kind of like one example. And yeah, I mean, you just always have to be listening, you know, to like yourself, to

Akua: your

Jenny: audience, to, you know, the world around you.

Akua: And I, I just love that though, because you have evolved, like even since the pandemic, you’re like, okay, pandemic elopements took off, but now we’re noticing that people want a little bit more than elopements.

Okay, so then how can we adjust our offers, our packages, what it is? And so I think I think that’s a very powerful thing and I think a lot of business owners, we don’t do it enough, you know, I think a lot of times we take the feedback and, um, you know, which I think is helpful and we can absolutely make a couple corrections, but I think sometimes it requires a big pivot and I think sometimes we don’t do that because we’re afraid of how things are going to turn out.

But it’s like if people are already asking for it. Just do it. And again, it’s an experimentation. So if it doesn’t work out, you adjust, you figure out like, that’s truly what it is about entrepreneurship. And so I love that. You’re like, okay, things are now looking a lot different than what I thought they were going to be, but we’re going to adjust and make it work because what matters is how you’re serving the people that you’re serving.

And I think that’s just such a good, good, good testament. And I do believe that listening truly is a skill because I think a lot of us, I think just as humans in general, many of us listen to respond, you know, when we’re listening, like there’s ego involved. And, you know, we usually feel like, okay, like if we are given feedback in any type of capacity, it’s natural to get defensive and stuff like that.

You know what I mean? And so where do you see business owners unintentionally failing at listening, essentially when it comes to clients, whether industry or like peers?

Jenny: I mean, I think that like, as you were talking, I, I, I like, love this conversation. I think it’s so great to have these conversations. As you were talking, it reminds me of, there’s like this Buddhist saying, beginner’s mind, you know?

Where. You know, there’s always these like stories of this like amazing, you know, meditator and master and sage who like reaches this point and then he just gets knocked down, you know, and you remember, Oh yeah. Beginner’s minds. Like, you know, entrepreneurs are always kind of riding these waves, you know, like, We do something, it works, there’s success, or we do something and like it didn’t click and we have to hang out there for a little bit and keep, you know, keep figuring it out.

But I think that, you know, what comes to mind for me is like that beginner’s mind. That, that like humility of knowing that, you know, you can be. You know, the authority and the expert, but you’re only that by listening to your clients and, and listening to like the market, otherwise you’re nothing. Like the second you think that, like, you just know it all.

It’s just, it’s, you’re going to hit a wall because things are always changing. Things are changing really rapidly, you know, like in our lifetime, uh, marketing’s changing, like the tools are changing, everything, like what we’re capable of, business owners is just kind of, it, it’s amazing, you know, it’s, it’s really profound and really immense.

You know, kind of like humility and just remembering, just like, go back to where you started.

Akua: Absolutely. I love that. And I think again, that’s, that’s perfect. Like humility. Like it’s, it is a very humbling experience thinking of starting something new, of being bad at something. And I think even for me, I had to be humbled.

Like. When was it? Like over like two, almost two years ago. Like I, and you, it starts to show up in your business when you’re not growing in specific ways, right. Or not, you’re not serving the right people that you want to serve. And, you know, I think a part of that too was for me because I truly wasn’t listening to.

The market, the people, right? Like I felt like, again, it’s more, it was a little bit more ego driven. And then I was like, you know what? I’m going to do something completely out of my realm. That’s like brand new, not even just in business, just in life in general. And I started taking pottery classes and I was so bad at it.

And it was just such a good reminder as a business owner. Like that is the beauty of it. And like. It was humbling to learn something new to be that student. And it’s like, now I just continuously carry that with me. It’s like, you’re truly never done learning as a business owner. And even when somebody asks me something, even if it’s a potential client, like I’ll say, look, I don’t have the answer today, but I can definitely find out.

Or like, it’s okay to ask for help because there is going to be somebody who knows more than you. Right. And you know, that saying where it’s like, if you are the smartest person in the room, you’re not in the right room. And like, now I do try to look that way. It’s it’s so true. And especially as you continue to evolve in your business, your clients start to change and like everything changes.

And to your point, even the way that we do business tools are changing, right? The rise of AI is here and that’s not going anywhere, right? It’s not saying like, if you’re not comfortable fully adopting fine, but like, Figure out some other ways, like figure out little small things that you can do, right? And it’s just, it’s everything.

Everything is changing. And so like listening, slowing down, listening, take in what works for you, right? You don’t have to take in everything. Just take in, take what you need and apply it, right? And so I, I love that. And it’s, it’s, it’s all about humility. It’s, it, it truly, truly is.

Jenny: Yeah. It’s like, I feel like humility is not something that a lot of business people talk about.

Like, I don’t hear that in like, you know, the, you know, it’s all about like confidence and ego. Yeah, of course that’s part of it, but also, you know, knowing, of course, like having these conversations and showing that, you know, we’re all just working very hard. I mean, that, that’s the hallmark of an entrepreneur is just like always working, always growing.

You know, always like aligning yourself with your passions and your strengths. And like you said to taking stuff in, but not everything, you know what I mean? Cause there are certain things that you as an entrepreneur are going to be really great at, you know, uh, and really kind of feed you and really keep you going, there are going to be other things that, you know, You’re going to need help.

You’re going to need like a lot of guidance. You’re going to need support figuring out what those things are again. And that kind of goes to burnout, which I know is like another one of these hot topics, you know, knowing when to ask for help and you know what I mean? Like setting yourself up for that so that your business can grow.

Cause like your business is your, is your baby. And it’s kind of amazing. To watch it like over these years, it’s funny. Like I have two daughters, I have a six year old and 11 year old. And you know, my business has been around since before the kids, but it’s like, it’s all the same. It’s like watching them evolve.

Like businesses do in a way, like if you set it up, right. Take on a life of their own, you know, because like if your business is also really built with that intention of like who you are and like what you want to put out in the world, which again is something always. You know, I’ve always had with eloping as fun, you know, like, what do I believe in?

And what do I, you know, listening to myself too, you know what I mean? Like it’s full circle. It’s not, you know, like, what are the things that, that I want to do? And that, that helps, that helps like align me and like, keep me going. And this like, you know, um, just never ending life of being an entrepreneur, you know.

Akua: Yeah, but I love that though because I do think that, you know, even as we’ve been talking about listening, it’s like also alignment, right? Because you matter too in the process and I love that of like, you were like, okay, elope and it’s fine. This is aligned to me. I love this. Um, but every, you’re still changing it, but the core.

It’s still what you’re passionate about, right? Like, and that’s something I think is such a good, good thing, because especially as you were in your business, whatever stage, especially if you’re going into unfamiliar territory, it can be easy to go in a direction, but it’s like, you have to be really just grounded in your values and like truly your core, because then you can evolve, but the values are the same, like what you believe in your heart and your is the same.

And so like, it’s just different variations of it. And so that’s what I love. That’s just. Such a good reminder. And I think, again, it’s a really good reflection of just. The crazy but beautiful and hard journey of entrepreneurship that I just love. And you know, I have been really learning this in the past year is not even the past year, just like a couple.

Well, yeah, I think, I think it’s been heightened more in the past year of, you know, when people are saying things, you got to read between the lines because they’re not saying it. You know what I mean? Like that’s something I have, like have seen very much. So like, you’re telling me this. But there’s a deeper thing that you’re not telling, like, this is actually what you’re really telling me.

And so for you, if you’ve encountered clients like that, how do you read between those lines, right? To where, like, you’re actually giving them what they want. Like, I think sometimes of, like, designers, right? When they have to submit their feedback. And people are like, yeah, but they’re not telling, they’re not saying what they really are.

thinking. So then you got to read between the lines. You know what I mean? I think that’s like, yeah, it’s cause some people, right? Some people don’t do well with confrontation clients. Some clients don’t like, I think this is again, and this is just in general. So how do you, how do you do that? Have you ever had a client like that or an experience like that?

And how did you handle it?

Jenny: Yeah, no, this is a really good topic too. This is another, this is another topic that I think a lot about. So we have a team, right? So I founded eloping is fun, but you know, there’s, there’s a team that kind of carries out this vision, right? So we. It all really have to be aligned all the time about our process, you know, our customer journey, you know, how we, you know, deliver our promises to our client.

And I guess, you know, how we stay like in charge, you know, like how we stay in charge. But still getting feedback from them. Yeah, this is this in where, if you’re in the service industry, this is always something that you’re working on. I think for us, like this is something we work on a lot because it’s really important, like weddings are something so.

So personal, you know, and we really want to, we really want to give people, you know, like this, this dream, you know, of what it is. And, you know, dream means different things for a lot of different people. A lot of our clients dream is for it to just be fun and nice and not. you know, stressful. So we do everything we can to kind of get them there.

I mean, I think when it comes to what, you know, like the point you bring up, I think from the beginning, if you’re just Really on top of things and, you know, confident in what, you know, but still listening, I feel like it keeps that, you know, it, it, it gives the clients that trust in you and you kind of maintain that authority to kind of move things along.

I mean, of course we have clients sometimes who are asking for things that we just don’t think are like possible or reasonable. And honestly, my approach. As a New Yorker and someone who’s been doing this for a really long time. It’s just be really honest with them. Super honest, whether they like it or not.

And, and always, like I always say, our process is giving them all the information and empowering them to ultimately make the choices. I mean, we want them to make the choices that we think are going to be the best for them and they usually do. And if they don’t make those choices, we tell them. You know, all the things that can happen from that choice.

You know, like we do do a lot of kind of edgy things. Like we do these elopements at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, right? Which is. Not technically allowed. So we, I mean, can you imagine like, sure, I’m going to get married with the Met. Um, so the couples that do that, we have a process and we vet them and we let them know all the, you know, things that might happen and we get to do like, Hey, you know, If we’re going to do this, we could get, you know, asked to leave or move, uh, and, or

Akua: arrested.

Jenny: I’m like for trespassing. I’m just kidding. We’ve come close to being arrested a few times. And you know what?

Akua: I would be like, okay. Yeah. I would do it.

Jenny: No way. Get arrested I’m like, say less.

Akua: That’s where I’m going to be spending my honeymoon, right? Like.

Jenny: I know. Well, you’ll have a lot of good company in New York City jail right now.

Anyway, let’s not talk about that. Plenty to talk

Akua: about. Plenty to talk about.

Jenny: Oh my God, so funny.

Akua: Yeah, no, I think, I love that. And I think too, like something that just popped into me the other day, cause I’m doing a beta round for my Storytime for Creatives course. Cause I’m launching my new course, The Hard Launch in March.

And somebody said this to me, and this just popped into my head of like, Akua, you really do create like a safe space to where like, I feel like I can be very honest. And I think even too, like, I love what you’re saying. Like you, what you do is that you communicate, right? Communicate expectations early and right.

And I think, and that’s so, so important. And I think even to add to that is what are some ways that you can make it safe for your clients to where like they don’t like they can just be honest, as honest as possible. I think that because it just leads to such a great relationship and such a great experience, even if they don’t necessarily, right?

Even if it you create something they’re like. They don’t feel because you want to give them a product that they feel good about. So, but sometimes two people are like, well, I don’t want to be mean and this and that. So, you know, how do we, like, I think that’s a good thing of like, how do you create that safe space?

Like thinking of that, of like, what are some small details that you can really do to make people feel relaxed and seen and valued so that they do feel empowered to share their thoughts. Um, so even just to add to that. So I love that.

Jenny: Absolutely. Because also kind of with what. We do, it’s like, it’s not about the end product.

It’s it, you know, the end product, the end result, which is like being married, you know, it’s about the entire process. You know, it’s like everything that happened up until that day is really going to contribute to like how that, how you’re going to experience that day. And I mean, I just think, honestly, I believe in.

You know, just being really honest about things up, up front. Um, you know, even in like my sales calls with people sometimes I’m like, Hey, just please like, let me know anything that’s on your mind, you know, so that we can, Start developing this relationship, you know what I mean, of trust and listening and I, people are always really relieved when you give them a very honest answer.

I don’t think anyone should ever be afraid of that. Great of sharing that, but also sharing it in a way like this empathetic way where it’s like, okay, I’m not cutting you off because of that. Like, I’m not cutting off that idea. You know, maybe there’s something behind that. It’s just not being expressed in the way that makes sense right now.

We’ll still get to the bottom of it. You know, this all sounds very kind of fluffy, but I think you and I know what we’re, Talking about, you know, so yeah, sometimes I, you know, and I say this to like our planning guru, Becca, who’s amazing. She’s like the real engine behind eloping is fun. She’s the one, every single, every single minor detail you can imagine, like Becca’s there.

I mean, Becca, more than anyone is someone. Who really loves to serve, who like has hospitality in her bones. That’s why when I met her, she reached out to me. She wanted to work for us. She actually worked for one of our competitors. And you know, I wanted to work for us. And I’m like, yeah, we can make that happen.

And she just loves serving. And. When she comes up with this because I have to coach her through things sometimes or she’s afraid like clients are asking some things She doesn’t know what to say with how to say no or this or that My secret is just keep asking them questions before you give them an answer keep asking them questions and Then you’ll find out what the real need is there before you jump in And make, never make assumptions also dealing with your clients, like never, just ask, ask, ask and clarify.

Once you get to that, it’s just clear to both of you and then you can move forward from that point, you know?

Akua: Oh my gosh, I love that. Yes, don’t be afraid to ask those follow up questions. I think of, I did not create this, but I think of that 5Y technique. Like, I don’t know who created it. But, uh, it’s something that I will practice and even teach people.

Of like, especially like when you’re trying to figure out who it is that you’re wanting to serve. Like your target audience. Like, There’s always a deeper reason why people are coming to work with you. And people, I think as business owners, we forget that like somebody that’s coming to me, they’re like, yeah, I want to learn to share my story.

Okay. But why? Right. And then I keep asking like, why, why, why, until you get down to the core reason of why they actually came to me, like, so even for example, if you’re like a system strategist, they’re like, okay, well, I would like to create more systems in my business. Okay. Why? Well, to make more money.

Okay. Well, why? So that I can have more time and freedom. Okay. Well, why? So that I can spend time with my kids. You know what I mean? Like, like, and it just keeps going down, down, down until you find the real core reason as to why somebody wants to work with you. And that’s just like that perfect example of even too, like, if you’re having that relationship with the client, like, don’t be afraid to ask follow up questions because you’re going to get to the real, because sometimes they, they don’t even realize what the real issue is until you have gone back and peeled all of those layers.

So I love that. That is just such a, such a good. Reminder for us to consistently be doing that because every time then somebody’s coming to you with something There’s always a deeper reason to it. You can

Jenny: never go wrong. You could never mess it up if you keep asking questions But if you make an assumption, there’s a possibility that you you get it wrong, you know and you haven’t created that space to be able to Really connect with your clients on the level where you’re having like a really Honest relationship and communication and you’re really ready to create something together.

Do you know what I mean? Yes, like create something really powerful Together so I could tell you’re good at it because you just did it with me. Do you know what I mean? I’m like,

Akua: I’m like, I’m gonna find out everything about everybody. Okay. We, if you’re coming here, I’m gonna be in your business. Exactly.

Jenny: Exactly. People. It’s a, it’s a real. It’s really beautiful. It’s just really beautiful to like have time because you know, life is a lot of like, go, go, go. And you know what I mean? Yes. When you’re starting these relationships with your clients or do you know what I mean? Like looking internally with yourself is like, you know, the, your business owner kind of entrepreneur looking in the mirror, like, What am I doing?

Where am I going? It’s like, you have to just slow down and stop and ask these questions, you know?

Akua: Yes. Oh, I love that. And now, you know, cause you’ve been, you’ve been in the game for 12 years. And so I would love to know from you is what Are you working through now as a business owner, like as an entrepreneur?

Um, you know, especially like I said, you’ve been in it for 12 years and you’re in this current season. What is, what is, uh, like something that you’re working through as a business owner?

Jenny: Okay. I’ll tell you. I’ll tell you what I love about being an entrepreneur is that this is like a vehicle and a tool for How do I say this?

um, I should have practiced this because like I do want to say this like for just my my Myself and like my passions and like the things that I want to work on. I think right now where I am in my life personally and with my business is like I said, eloping is fun has been around for a minute and we’ve created something.

I love what we’ve created. I love the community. I love my clients. I love my team. What is important for me right now is seeing. Seeing where else that can go. Do you know what I mean? I feel like at times I haven’t. Set things up for it to, to grow as much as it could. I’ve net, you know, it’s funny as a, as a business owner, I’ve not always had that mindset, like that grow, grow, grow, just more kind of like, like, let’s enjoy, let’s just kind of flip, like, let’s, you know, just take this at a pace.

And, and I feel like now that’s something I want to try. So we’re actually, we have So we’ve got a few things set up for this year to kind of test this out. We’re going to do some pop ups in some other cities. Uh, and I’m really just, I know I’m really excited about that. Uh, I’m doing the first kind of trial run in January.

I’m not, I’m not going to say where yet, but I think it’ll be really cool. And I think kind of what we’ve done will translate to other cities. And for me. The motivation behind doing it is like that really strong belief in like what we’ve built and created and also the community that it supports, you know, like eloping is fun is like this also like, you know, in the business side, it’s this community of like, Creatives and freelancers and entrepreneurs and artists and hustlers, you know, like and it’s just really fun to be able to give people the opportunity to Do this work, you know, like one of our officiants is like this accordion player like And he’s like this amazing Artist, musician, and I reached out to him.

He was one of the first people I reached out to. Cause I, you know, I knew who he was in New York. Like he’s kind of like a legend, you know, I’m like, Hey, how would you feel about officiating? Don’t worry. Like I’ll train you. I’ll get you there. We’ll do it. And he’s like, yeah, sounds good. And it’s just fun.

Like everyone that we work with has these other kind of creative pursuits and they have a loping is fun, which is something that they really love doing. So. You know, yeah, I’m just going to try and expand it a bit more like I’ve not done before. Uh, so we’ll see. We’ll see. It’s exciting. It’s scary and exciting.

Akua: It’s exciting, scary, but amazing, brave. You know what I mean? And I think that is Like I’m excited for you. And I think again, it just goes to show as like, doesn’t matter how long you’ve been in business, whether for a year or, you know, 10, 12, 15, you always are starting over at some point always. And so again, like really leaning, being humble, being open to learn, experiment, and like, and just seeing how things go.

But like, obviously you’re putting strategy behind it, which is great. You know what I mean? Like, you’re okay. Like now I’ve been doing this, but now let’s add a little bit of strategy to this. Let’s add some strategy. but also to let’s keep things at the core of like who I am and making sure that things are aligned.

And so I think that’s amazing. And I’m so, so excited for you to figure that out, to figure that out and what that whole thing looks like for 2025.

Jenny: Yes. Very excited. Definitely keep you posted.

Akua: Please. Yeah. Okay. So this question popped in my head right away, especially since you are out here creating potential, uh, felons, getting people arrested.

What is the craziest thing that has ever happened to you? Request you have ever done. I want to know.

Jenny: Well, yeah. So, uh, you know, keeping it, keeping it with the theme of breaking the law. Okay. Cause you know, I like to test the limit. I like to live on the edge. See what’s possible. Well, actually, so it’s funny, actually one of my, one of our first One of our first elopements.

So this is when this before, like I officially started eloping is fun, you know, but we were just kind of testing out the waters of like doing elopements, having an officiate. So there was a couple that came in from Los Angeles and they wanted to have a New Orleans style brass band. Um, walk them over the Brooklyn bridge and do the ceremony on the Brooklyn bridge.

I mean, of course, I’m like, yes, let’s do this. I’m like, there was no way to know if we were going to get arrested or not. I’m like, we just have to do this and see what happens. Yeah.

Akua: Yeah.

Jenny: And, you know, we did because technically, technically by the books, but by the books is so boring. It’s like, you know, if you’re going to gather more than 20 people, you need a permit.

It’s like really. Yeah. I don’t know if you know, sorry, this is just a side thing, but this is an important side thing. Have you seen on Instagram, there was just the Timothy Chamolay lookalike contest? Yes. Yes.

Akua: Yep. Yep.

Jenny: You need to know the story behind that because the guy who did it is a genius. He’s my hero.

Uh, it was huge. I remember seeing the signs everywhere like Timothy Chamolay lookalike contest. I’m like, Oh, this looks like fun. I didn’t end up going, but it was huge. You chimpanzee shambley showed up and he didn’t get a permit. And I think like, I just read an article, they interviewed him. He’s like, yeah, to get a permit was like too much work.

It’s better to just do it and see what happens. And you know, it, it worked out for him. It worked out for him. So anyway, so yeah, so we did this wedding on the Brooklyn bridge with this marching band. And the whole time I was like sweating, but then I got to a point where I’m like, We’re fine. Do you know what I mean?

We’re totally fine. Like, you know, this is, there’s just too much joy here for this to be cracked down on, like, and then I got like really into it. There’s actually a picture of me. Someone took. So the Brooklyn bridge, I actually climbed on top of like one of these kind of, you know, platform thing. So I could like take a really cool photo of them all coming down.

And someone like took a photo of me and, you know, I didn’t even realize I was doing, I was just so in the moment and felt so alive. I’m like, this is so much fun, you know? So yeah, that was, we, you know, I thought, We could get arrested, but so far, you

Akua: know what I think of the saying, um, it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Jenny: Yeah.

Akua: Like that’s like a perfect example of it. And so even like for me thinking, you know, I’ve never been like a big like word person for 2025. I’ve never been that way. Like for every year, like I’ve never, ever think of like a word. I just do my thing. But this year I was like, you know what, I’m going to have a word because One of my friends, uh, Michael Tettinetti, he was on the show a couple weeks ago and he was talking about how he has the audacity.

And I was like, you know what? I’m going to have the audacity for 2025. I’m not asking for permission for nothing. You know what I mean? Now, where that may end up, I don’t know. We’re just going to see. I’m not saying I’m going to lobby here and get arrested, but you never know. I don’t know what’s going to happen.

All I’m saying is I’m going to, we don’t recommend it, right? Like, Don’t do that stuff. But like, you know what I mean? But everything else, like just with life in general, I’m going to have the audacity with my business. I’m going to have the audacity. I’m going to make the ass I’m going to pitch, you know, a brand that I would like, love, like, you know what I mean?

Just, just doing it, doing it. Don’t wait for permission like at all. And so like that was for me. And think that’s like.

Jenny: Yeah, that’s what an entrepreneur is. And like, that is what an entrepreneur is, you know, is having that audacity. I mean, you wouldn’t be crazy enough to be like, I’m just going to sit, you know, sail in the sea and see where, I mean, it’s crazy that there’s just audacity.

At the core of it, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like owning it and really going with it. Like then I am very excited to see that. I think that’s like wearing it, you know?

Akua: I think that’s what it is. I think we need to wear it because I think, okay, it takes audacity to start a business, right? But then when you’re, you’re in it, then all of a sudden we, I always say all the time, like we, we always say we want to start a business to like stand out.

We want to do our own thing. And then sometimes when we get into it, we see what everybody else is doing. And then we try to blend in. And it’s like, that is not the whole purpose of why you started your own business in the first place. Right. Because then we let comparison creep up and like, am I doing things the right way and stuff like that?

And you know what I mean? And so then it’s easy to, The right way is your way. And I think it’s easy to forget that audacity that’s already in you. Like you got, you just got to find it. Right. And I think for me, I’m, that’s what my year is going to be is exploring what that audacity looks like. Like, it’s like, you know, so I’m, I’m really excited, but that story too, at the Brooklyn Bridge, like, that’s what it is.

Like, you didn’t wait for permission. You’re like, let’s just do it and let’s see how it goes. And I think that’s just, uh, you know, Amazing. And I love that. So thank you so much for sharing. This has been an amazing conversation. And so a question that I want to ask you is, what do you think is the biggest differentiator between the businesses that succeed and the ones that fail?

Jenny: Oh my God, this is a great question. I think that, you know, passion, I think if you lose your passion for something, You’re just going down, you’re just going down a path where it’s just going to peter out, you know, I mean, I think if you have that passion and, you know, have the purpose. Like you can’t go wrong.

Do you know what I mean? Like you will keep finding a way because being an entrepreneur is always about the continuing to find a way, you know, like adapting to the changing world, adapting to, you know what I mean? What, what you’ve learned and like where you want to go. And, you know, it’s an exercise that I do a lot is like always going back to my Why, you know, like if I ever get lost or off track and you know, when you’re lost and off track, like you just feel it, you know, you’re like, it’s not working right now.

You know, it’s like, yeah, come back to like, what am I doing? Why am I doing? I’m like, oh yeah, this is why I’m doing it. And I’m so, you know, like, I’m so grateful that I have the, and I have a track record of, you know, it’s, it’s worked before and you know what I mean? I can continue to make it work. So I guess that’s my way of answering that question.

I’m excited to see the other answers you get, you know? Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Akua: Yes. I know it is. It is. I have loved this conversation. It has been so much fun. So much fun. Jenny, thank you so much for joining us on the show. And for those that want to connect with you, how can we support you? How can, how can we find you?

Jenny: So if you know anyone that’s getting married, tell them to look us up now. Um, you can find me. Yes. Of course there’s that. Yes. You know, I think the funny thing too, there’s still a lot of people who like find us and are like, Oh, my God, you exist, like you’re exactly what I want. I’m like, yeah, I know, like, tell everybody, you know.

Akua: I’m like, how are you going to come on this show and be like, no, maybe not. I was like, uh, yes, people. Absolutely. And like, you’re getting

Jenny: married? Like. Yes. Eloping is fun. Yes. 100 percent eloping is fun. Um, well, you can find me on Instagram. We’re trying to have fun there and just be silly and just spread the gospel of, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Stress free fun weddings. Uh, I’m on TikTok. I’m figuring that out. Uh, don’t judge. Um, and you know, elopingisfun. com. That’s, that’s me. That’s where you can find that. So, you know, little fun earrings. Oh, I love that. You should see like, yes, like random stuff. Swag that we could do. I’m like, let’s do it.

Let’s make it. Yes.

Akua: That’s I think that’s just, again, that’s like the quirks of your business and what makes you, you. And like, I love that. And that’s just a reminder again, of business owners, just lean into who you are, your quirks, your personality, like it’s going to pay off. And so I have absolutely loved this conversation.

Thank you again so much, Jenny. And for everybody listening until next time, that ends our episode of the independent business podcast. Everything we’ve discussed today can be found at podcast. honeybook. com. Head to our website to access for show notes, relevant links, and all of the resources that you need to level up.

And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast to make sure you never miss our future content. Drop us a review and leave our guests some love on social. And thank you again for listening.