Natalie Franke
When you start an independent business, the odds are stacked against you. But what if you could defy them? That is precisely what I am sitting down to speak with Diana Wei Fung, a systems architect, a breakthrough coach. All about today on the podcast, Diana has supported hundreds of businesses in architecting their systems such that people can do more of what they love, and the business can run even when they’re sleeping. She is a dear friend of mine. We have known each other for several years, and I have watched as her career has taken shape, and she has really become the thought leader when it comes to automations systems and the magic of client flow. I can’t wait for you to dig into this episode, we talk about some nitty gritty details of systems, we talk about mindset shifts that are required for success. And you’re going to absolutely love Diana’s personal story at the very end of the show. Hey, everyone, this is your host, Natalie Frank, and you’re listening to the independent business podcast, more people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process. So on this show, I sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs and creators to break down the science of self made success so that you can achieve victory.
Natalie Franke
Diana, thank you so much for joining me.
Diana Wei Fang
I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Before we hopped on,
Natalie Franke
I was joking that I’m like, we should start by talking about Hamas. And you gave me a look. And I’m like, No, we should our shared love of Hamas and bonding in Tel Aviv, and all of the things because it is important. I think we’re friends, we’ve been friends for a really long time in the industry. And I have been dying to get you on the show absolutely dying, because I have the privilege of getting to chat with you behind the scenes about the independent business world about what we see unfolding in the macro sense for our community. And so often we’ll be chatting and I will say to you like oh, oh, that thought we need that on the show. I just I need people to hear that. So thank you for truly carving out the time to join me in this episode, because I already know how profound and impactful it’s going to be. And for everyone listening, it’s going to be, you know, as delicious as hummus and as impactful as a rocket ship taking off with your business attached to it to the moon because that is Diana in a nutshell.
Diana Wei Fang
Wow. Should we also talk about what you like? What kind of dark personality you think I am to
Natalie Franke
know my secrets to the listeners? Don’t do it. Don’t do it. I might. Yeah, the long story in that for any going dog personality. You know, my mom growing up, never let me watch the Power Rangers and instead gave me an encyclopedia of dogs. And so yes, I was the nerdy child that memorized every dog breed. But we don’t need to go into that today. What I want to go into today is I want to start by talking about a phrase that you and I both love and share that I have seen on your website. I have seen you speak about on stage I have heard you talk about in the community. And that is the concept of defying the odds. I want you to start there, what odds are we defining and give us a little bit of an understanding of you know how you got into doing the work that you do today as a systems architect and a breakthrough coach, and what it has to do with defying the odds?
Diana Wei Fang
My gosh, there’s so much I can talk about this. So stop me whenever you need to. But essentially, the big statistic is in 2019 90% of small businesses failed. That is an enormous number. And even as like a small business owner myself, when I first started, the stats are always like, that’s a stat everyone knows, you know, like, oh, it’s really hard to make it as a small business owner, are you sure this is what you want to do? You know, like, as soon as you’re like, I’m gonna start my own business. I’m like, okay, you know, I think the idea of failure is more prominent than the idea of success. And so as soon as you start in good health and I think that’s why it’s so scary to tell someone your dream, because you know that as soon as you verbalize it a it’s real and be someone is going to be negative Nancy out there in the world. You know, someone it’s going to rain on this brand new thinking parade. And sometimes you just want to shut it down. But also, instead of looking at the statistics and looking at everything and saying, Well, why even try? Right? What if we just adopted the mindset of defying the odds? It’s possible you’re living proof of it. I’m living proof of it. Everyone who’s ever been on this podcast is living proof that it is so possible to defy the odds? It just takes a lot of courage, bravery, grit, resistance, joy, love, of what you do, right. But it’s not impossible, you just some of these things we have. And some of these things we don’t and we develop along the way. Community, like, it’s not impossible. But so just encouraging people to defy the odds to, to it’s a rallying cry. I mean, you use that phrase a lot. But for me, that’s what it is like, instead of hearing about it all the time. And that’s, that’s genuinely how it started. I live in a culture where it is common for small business owners to start their thing, I have the privilege of my previous full time job, I got to hear a lot of dreams. And my my former like CEO, he say, this is a dream factory. This is a dream factory. And we would hear these big dreams, like farmers in Colombia who were growing cocaine, chopping out all the cocaine plants, and like now growing coffee beans as like a living, like a way of providing for their family and changing the industry. That is a dream. And we are just so good at dreaming. And if you were being honest, there’s probably like 1000 dreams of yours that you’ve actually never told anyone else. Maybe your husband, right if that. And we just keep it because it’s like, there’s so many what ifs in the world. And then we go out and we are very good at baking the pie. We are very good at cutting the hair, we are very good at taking the pictures. And then a year later, I see them. I see them, how’s it going? How’s it going? And they’re just like, Oh, I think I’m gonna close. Can we talk about that? And it’s just, it’s easy to get cynical about it. It’s easy to say, oh, you know, it’s just terrible marketing or all your social media presence, you never asked enough favors, right? It’s so easy to say that. But what it comes down to is a decision to not give up, find the answers are low. And I I get that I get finances get low. But what it comes down to also is that your system isn’t in place. It’s not about your social media at all. If I gave you if I gifted you 1000 Pain clients today. Could you sustain that? Can you deliver and provide your service to 1000 paying clients today, because you know, the clients that I work with, I’ve seen it all, they’ve broken the contact form codes, because they can’t handle any more orders. And they get nervous, I can’t fill them that fast. And other than that, they ignore and shut down their emails because they can’t respond to 1000 people. And that’s genuinely alien, you’re like, Oh, this is a dream world. That’s not true. The community that I’m a part of, when that CEO tells the world, hey, this is a coffee company we’re all gonna buy coffee from you can bet 4000 orders is going to go into the night. But you can also bet but that same company shut down because they couldn’t handle the orders. And it has nothing to do with your social media has everything to do with what’s your welcome email look like, what’s the next step people are waiting, and they’re ready. And at some point, after trying to buy the coffee a few times, you kind of think, Oh, well, they’re just really busy, and they don’t need my business. And meanwhile, this coffee farmer is desperate for your business. But they don’t know how to take you to the next step. And so it’s not, we blame a lot of symptoms, we focus ourselves on a lot of symptoms. But the root of it is your system. And I’m just I’ve seen the flip, I’ve seen the success, it is just such an increase. Like once you get your system in order, your chances of converting leads go up by 79%. That’s a huge, huge, and so why am I not spending the rest of my life, ensuring that what you were meant to do on this earth is successful, is successful. You can’t give up. I’m not gonna give up but I also can’t want it more than you. So you have to decide to defy the odds.
Natalie Franke
I love that you’ve dedicated yourself to that phrase. I love the idea, the mission of helping others to defy the odds and as you were talking, it reminded me of my own trajectory as a small business owner many many years ago as a wedding photographer I vividly remember how I went into it say thinking, I’m never going to have enough clients in order to sustain this business. And that didn’t end up becoming the biggest problem. The problem was, I didn’t have the systems to support the demand as I scaled, and I never imagined in a million years, and I’m sure business owners listening to this, especially those that are 2345 years into the business, or who are experiencing demand for the first time, or who are pivoting into a new market. And, you know, kind of ramping things up, once again, can relate to me when I say that sometimes success can be the very thing, right? That challenges you and creates friction in your business such that you can’t keep doing it anymore. You know, you trade working nine to five for working 24/7, you get burnt out by the very thing that you once loved doing. But that’s not how it has to be. That’s the outcome when you don’t have systems when you aren’t setting yourself up for success as a business owner, and so not to steal kind of the first way in which you help people to defy the odds and kind of, you know, spoil that, like we always hate when someone spoils a good movie, right. But I do want to say you have in your title systems architect, talk to me a little bit about how systems in particular can help business owners.
Diana Wei Fang
Oh, I believe it as the foundation of your business. I definitely do because it dictates your vision for what you want, right? It’s more than just saying, I’m going to be a phenomenal photographer, there is a reason why you are a different photographer than the millions of other photographers in the world. There’s a reason why someone chooses you over someone else. There’s also a reason why you left the corporate world. There’s also a reason why we I never quite fit in, like I liked corporate world. But I once I really started my own business, I felt like I understood, like before, I just always felt like my wings were clipped. And now it’s like the sky is the limit. There is a different mentality to owning your own business, right. And there’s a different, it’s just different. Like if you if you’re in it, you know. And honestly, for some of you, when I said if I gifted you with 1000 clients today paying clients today, some of you, actually, that terrified you. Some of you are ready to quit just by me telling you, there’s 1000 paying clients waiting for you because we sabotage ourselves. So well, we sabotage success, we are so afraid of succeeding, because it means that your dream is coming true. And your purpose is coming alive. And there is something about that, where the universe is suddenly going to put all these doubts in your head. And you’re going to say no fear, buddy.
Natalie Franke
It’s terrifying. It’s terrifying, absolutely terrifying to succeed. And so I do think it’s something that, you know, we will talk about, we will share about our dreams. But you’re right. No one is going to challenge us in the pursuit of success more than ourselves. Jon Acuff, one of my favorite quotes from his new book is right along those same lines, you know, he says something to the effect of like, you know, I’m always the one standing in my own way. And, you know, I love I love kind of how he said, you know, the guy is impossible meaning himself, right. And he’s so he’s so true. And in that, and so as the business owner, who maybe does have these big dreams or heard, for example, if I gifted you with 1000 clients that were ready to book you right now, and that scared you? If that’s the person listening to this, what advice do you have? Where do they start? What is the first thing that they need to take a good hard look at?
Diana Wei Fang
I think the first thing that I always ask someone when I do my breakthrough accelerator program with someone one on one is that I say to them, what’s riding on this? Because if, if it’s like you need to provide for your family, and this is the only outcome which for many it is okay. Well, it’s not necessarily like your why, but it is driving you to say, I have to put food on the table. So I therefore I must succeed. But for many of us, we are fortunate and privileged enough to have multiple streams of income. And for us something when we talk about something as big as your dream and the purpose of what you’re doing. When we talk about something like that. That’s not I have to put food on the table kind of dream. That is, this is going to change the next five generations kind of dream It’s not going to change me today. But it’s actually going to affect the way that my child lives on earth and their children and their children and their children. And the way globally, right, and I live in Washington, DC, I live in the city of dreams. Everyone lives in DC to change the world. We may not agree on how to do that. But that’s what people are here for. Okay. And so I am surrounded by Dreamers. And the question here is, is it worth it to you, is the next five generations worth it to you? Because if so, again, it’s not impossible for you to lay the foundation so that you can take 1000 paying clients, so that you could change the next five generations lives so that you can provide food on your family’s dinner table, and someone else’s dinner table. Because when you employ me, you also employ my team member who is studying to the Art Therapist, you’re employing my other team member who’s a doula and also works with children with cardiac heart diseases, your employer employing someone who’s trying to foster children, do you see the ripple effect of what you are doing? And then for every business that I help? Can you imagine if the farmers who switched from cocaine plants to coffee plants, the ripple effect across the country in the drug industry, and their families and the farmers around the world? Can you imagine the effect that one coffee farm? could do? Does that see like, we talk about these big lofty dreams, but you guys are out there doing? You’re doing the thing. So the idea is for you to not give up? What do you need? How can I help you? No, I don’t. I’m not here to answer your emails. But I’m here to give you long term success, not success to get you through tomorrow. I’m thinking the next five years, I’m thinking that next 20 years for you. And I want you to have the courage to also keep dreaming that because I think sometimes we get scared to do that.
Natalie Franke
I love that Diana and I have a picture of my kids on my phone. Part of the reason as the background, right the wallpaper when I go to open my phone. And part of the reason that I do that is because I’ve noticed when things get tough, I’m having a tough day in between meetings, we’ve all been trained to reach for our phone. And I want the first thing that I see in any circumstance to be my family, because very much as you were talking about legacy, which is one of my top core values as a human being is legacy. It resonated with me, right, I have to remind myself that the work that I’m doing here at HoneyBook, the work that I’m doing, as a mama bear for small business, in anything that I do the work you’re doing right now with your craft, cultivating a business building, you know, something supporting others, whatever it is, it is for a greater purpose, there is so much more, right that is connected to all of the actions that we undertake. And I love that I absolutely love that. I want to double click in to the systems conversation a little bit deeper, because I’m going to be honest with you, the word systems is not sexy. There’s a reason why people focus so much on social media, both as a hopeful channel for growth and as something to blame when things aren’t going right. But you and I do share a belief and perhaps it’s a hot take that very often we’re focused on the wrong things very often as business owners, we do focus on what is sexy, and right in front of us. And that is social media followers likes validation approval, the outside world clapping, when that is not what makes or breaks a business. It’s not social media at the end of the day, the longer I do this, the more I can say that with confidence. Very often it is what people don’t see. It is the systems that are hidden from the outside. We talked about client flow as a concept. It’s the flow part, right? Like the client journey part. They get to experience the world sees and that is critically important. The workload part, the system’s part the the actual I think it was like a skeleton, the ribcage of your business like that is the absolute most critical thing and it transforms someone that is interested in working with you into an evangelist for your brand. Who wants to tell everyone they’ve ever met just how extraordinary you are. That’s not built by an Instagram post. Right? That doesn’t happen because you have a witty tick tock video. That happens because they go through an experience with you because of the systems that you’ve built, where their life is transformed, where they have an extraordinary time where the experience that you offer is unmatched. And so I want to kind of talk about systems for a second. You know, what are some of the key parts of that that you see? being important for business owners, what are the key areas where you see people making mistakes? Give it to us, give us the real real because you live in hundreds of business owners businesses from that lens every single day. And I want Diana’s take on it.
Diana Wei Fang
Okay, well, you’re gonna get the real world because you asked for it. So I did
Natalie Franke
the record for this. She’s clearing her throat. I like one time I got really nervous, and I started sweating. I had to take off my blazer. Okay. All right, I’m ready. I’m prepared. Give it to me.
Diana Wei Fang
All right. Listen, I know that, like, I’m the same boat as you. We chase being viral, you know, but same thing. If you got a million views tomorrow? How many clients does that get you? Let’s just say, for example, it got you 100 clients out of a million views? Sure, why not? Can your system handle that? We talked about that earlier? Right? Can your system handle that? When we talk about your system? It is I think we spend a lot of time getting a client, like nurturing the client, we talk about emails and nurturing them and prompting them to buy from us. And then they buy from us. And you’re like that’s where it starts. But for us, we think of it as the end game. You bought for me done. And now. And now comes the hard part. Because now your client is like, Excuse me? Hey, what comes next? I’m so excited that and now your inbox is flooded. And you’re like, I regret all of this. I don’t want to you know, like, because you’re just getting a million emails. And I just want to say like, that’s the beginning of your system. What happens after they pay you? And honestly, 99% of you come to me and you don’t know the answer to that question. The answer everyone gives me is, well, now I work with them. But what we are spending a lot of days and times and so like if you have heard, you know, Steve Jobs used to only wear all black. And it was because it seemed one decision that he had to make. The system takes is also those pre decisions that you’re making, that gives your brain fatigue. You Natalie already said that you’re a small business owner, you work in honey book, you’re a mama bear for small businesses, you’re an actual mom of two, you have a dog, you have a spouse, right? You’re carrying a lot of hats. You are making a lot of tiny decisions throughout your day that are exhausting. There are days when I finish my day, and I’m like, I don’t I don’t know what I went for dinner. Please don’t ask me. Someone ordered for me. That has become my love language lately, because I’m just like, Please don’t ask another question that true. Everyone
Natalie Franke
listening. By the way, Diana can relate to that. Just as a side note, because we’ve talked about this before I get like everyone’s nodding as they’re like, yes, please don’t ask me what I want for dinner. It’s an identity. But I do feel like Ali in the notebook, where she’s like, it’s not that simple. He’s like, just tell me what you want? And she’s like, I don’t know. It’s Keep going. Keep going. Yes, decision fatigue, it gets impossible to make any decision if you don’t have a system making some of them in advance for you.
Diana Wei Fang
Yes. Because and that’s, it’s like a double edged sword. For some of you, I can already hear you. I know. Just hear me out. Just hear me out. I know that some of you are people hire you for you. And you think that there was magic to it. There was magic to you thinking on the fly, there was magic to you delivering and being creative and thinking outside the box. And you think that if I say the word systems, you don’t get to do that anymore, when nothing could be further from the truth. Because if you had a system, what you get is someone booked a call with you instantly so that you can start the brainstorming process as soon as they paid for you. And guess what? They won’t email you asking you what’s next? Because they are we’re already told what’s next automatically from their system. You know, what’s also next is that right before that call, if you need them to fill out a questionnaire, the system sends a questionnaire for that. And you don’t have to remember if you did that or not, because that’s one less decision for you. Because if you think that the six emails going back and forth asking you if you’re free tomorrow at 12, or actually I had to go pick up my kid. So can we do 1230 Because I didn’t know they had a half day at school is not chipping away at that decision fatigue, you’re lying to yourself. So however, we can streamline those decisions for you on a day to day basis. That’s the foundation of it. Then you can go be creative. You can think outside the box, you can go and be the superstar that you are because you’re gonna have brain space to actually do this. And if we’re talking about scaling, when you hire someone in the future, not only do you not no longer have to write down everything from your brain and try to explain it to them. And then you delay hiring someone because you’re embarrassed about how discombobulated this whole situation is, you’re ready to hire, and you know where the weak spots are. So you’re very clear about who you want to hire, a lot of people will come to me and say, I’m ready to hire someone new, but I don’t know what they would do. Everything requires me. And that’s valid. It did for a long time. It did. But that is also a mistake we make we make the mistake of thinking no one else can do what we do. And while that is true, someone can send an email for you, someone can book your flights for you, someone can decide what you are eating for dinner, someone can you know what I’m saying? There are decisions that you don’t need to make as a business owner that you can let go of, and still deliver your magic. In fact, I can’t wait for you to DM me and tell me how much more magic you have. Because you have brains. Imagine that. It’s very exciting.
Natalie Franke
That was one of the hardest mindset shifts. For me personally, and my journey, it really was to recognize that I am not my business. Like, I want to say that again, you know, like you are not your business, you might be the magic that makes the outcome of what you offer, you might be the creative, that brings about something new into the world, you might be the leader, you might be the like, whatever it is, but the business is actually a separate entity from you, it may feel like an extension of your identity, it might be an extension of your identity. But it is not you. And the more that you can build something that truly does live beyond you such that when you step in, you’re able to do what only you can do. Like I love that you’re talking about that, no, it’s not going to strip you of the magic that you bring to the table technology building systems, leveraging things like automation, actually should, if done right enable you to be more human. What it should enable you to do is be more successful in the sense that you’re able to do those things you love able to do those things that light you on fire and that your clients are hiring you for in the first place. You know, we’ve done a lot of research at HoneyBook on what to clients want. We partner with VSA. We did a big survey, I will link to it in the show notes for anyone that’s interested in digging into the data at a at a larger scale. But one of the things that we found that I just it, it both rattled me but also affirmed something that I had been feeling was, you know, we found that most clients book the business that gets back to them first period. That right there is critical, because what Diana is saying is you know, we as business owners tell ourselves, if I don’t hit the Email button, if I don’t type the copy myself from scratch, then it’s not magical, then it’s not unique, then it’s not personal. But what do the clients really want? Do they want to know that your finger hit the Email button the submit on the form? Or do they want you to get back to them quickly, such that they feel like their time is valued, such that it indicates a level of trust in communication that they’re going to hear from you when they ask for something they can expect a response. Like it’s that first impression, and many of us because of our hesitancy to lean into these systems are essentially giving clients away without even realizing it. We’re telling ourselves that we’re getting ghosted because our work is not good enough. But in reality, we just didn’t get back to them fast enough. That’s one example in a multitude. But I say that to say, you know, are there other nuances like that, Diana, that you’ve seen in regards to things that maybe we’re telling ourselves that are holding us back? It could be about change, for instance, AI? You know, you and I have had long conversations about AI and the future of tech. I’d love to know from you, you know, what is something you see in that mindset space that business owners are struggling with that you want to set the record straight about?
Diana Wei Fang
Yeah, there’s two things here. One is shame, and one is change. So let’s talk about change. First. One is that this is a lot. 2023 is a lot 2024 is going to be even more, okay. Technology moves fast. We have always known that technology has moved fast. And we as human beings are very resistant to the unknown. Okay, and I get that you can’t quite see the technology in the eyes. It’s not the same as if you were writing it yourself. I get that. I get that. But also, it can be just as effective. It doesn’t have to be you physically typing the words to For this to be effective, and I think that the shame part comes into when we say, Oh, I, I, I’m not getting clients because I’m not posting consistently on social media, I reached out to five people, and they all said no. So I guess I wasn’t, I guess I should change it right. And coming to me for help is such a big ask, I get it. And that’s why we hate doing your taxes, too. It’s a reflection of where we have spent our time and money, and effort and in the back of your mind, whether or not you, you admit it to yourself, This is something that you know, you should do. And we procrastinate, because it’s easier to have that dopamine hit of an instant, like an instant DM et Cie, it works, it’s just fine. I have made it this far, just fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. And that is when you will get to a point everyone does, where it’s not fine anymore. And you are asking for help. And all of my clients come to me at a point of breaking point. This is their Hail Mary. And I would like for you to get to a point where this is not your Hail Mary. This is where you start. Because this is again the foundation. And you know, we can reiterate listen to this podcast again about all the reasons why. But adapting the change, you have to hit that breaking point, you have to hit the bottom for you to finally say something has to change. But what if we adopted that mindset? earlier? What if we just said, Okay, maybe all these tools and AI, maybe like there’s something here to that? What if we didn’t approach everything with cynicism? And we just tried it? Try it. Because if running your small business is not about running experiments, the world is, right. There’s a lot of trial and error out there. I think that is something and then a lot of times a lot of clients will come to me too. And say, You’re the expert, what you tell me what I should be doing. We are so afraid of doing our own thing, right? It’s like a double edged sword, you are the magic. And yet, how do I make this successful and not fail? You know, and so therefore, I’m going to mold myself to what everyone else has already done. And you lose some of that magic. And then, you know, it goes in circles, it’s cyclical. You are your own magic, you are your own small business and adapting to that change, adapting to the change of times of tools of technology, asking for help. That is a mindset shift of saying, I’m ready for someone else to step into the mess with me of my taxes. That’s what I do by by your automations admitting that to yourself, What if we did that earlier? What if you, as a small business owner, accepted, owned, that you are different and therefore your business shouldn’t be run exactly the same way that the other person that’s running it, that there was something different to it? Which is kind of like why I love honey book, honestly, because it’s customizable for everyone. I have made hundreds of custom systems for everybody. You’re not meant to do things the way that the other photographer did, the other Baker did, the other farmer did. Because if so back to this cocaine farmer, he would still be growing cocaine. Right? Because if so, we would actually all be incorporations. Right? And so we have to it just we have to get there faster. We have to accept the change faster, but it comes with fear and shame. And there’s just what if we adopted the attitude that define the odds? What if we adopted the attitude of resistance and grit and being willing to accept that this is not the end, but this is the beginning? earlier? way earlier? Like today?
Natalie Franke
I love it. We had an interview with Jason Pfeiffer, the editor in chief of Entrepreneur Magazine and the entire conversation was about this inevitability of change as a business owner and you’re hitting it right on the head. I think we are often so afraid of the change and also when it comes to The shame as you mentioned, asking for help can feel incredibly daunting. It can feel, you know, almost like admitting defeat, which it’s not, it’s absolutely not I always say asking for help is a sign of strength, not a sign of weakness, and yet, right as visitors, sometimes we expect to be able to do everything and wear all the hats. And we forget that in a corporation, somewhere, there is someone who does one of the 1 million jobs that we do, and that’s their nine to five. And here we are, right? Juggling 1000 of those jobs in a 24 hour period. So we talked about fear of change, and they need to address that head on, we’ve talked about not feeling ashamed to ask for help, not feeling ashamed, you know, to approach change with this experimental mindset, which I love the experimental mindset. You know, it took me until my 30 Astana to realize that it’s okay to suck at something, like you can just do something and be absolutely terrible at it. And that’s okay. You know, you don’t have to be perfect at whatever you go after. And some of you are rolling your eyes and the rest of your going, wait, what do you mean? And I’m saying, yes, write a song, no one will ever hear sing it and break the windows in your home like or maybe don’t, because they’re expensive knit a sweater, no one’s ever going to wear, right, take a photograph that is completely underexposed. But you’re learning the art of photography, one failed photo at a time, the point being, the moment that we stop being so afraid of making mistakes and looking like a fool and failing. That’s the moment where we embrace the possibility of something better for ourselves the change that could actually bring about our greatest success. And so I’d love to hear from you in your own journey. You know, you’ve you’ve kind of held a lot of different positions along the way used to run brands for over 50 Different businesses on social media, right. And you’ve worked with editing manuscripts, and books and all sorts of things. You’ve I literally could sit here all day, just list the number of jobs that you’ve had, and how that ultimately led you to becoming a systems architect to sitting down and working with hundreds and 1000s, arguably, of businesses to build out these systems. I would love to know from you though, you know, did you struggle with this as well? How has your journey evolved over time? When you think about where you’re going in the future? You know, what scares you but also what excites you?
Diana Wei Fang
Oh, yes, I grew up in a very untraditional home. So I grew up legitimately starved. Like, I did not know where my next meal was coming from. I was actually sick a lot as a kid, as Superman nourished anytime, like someone would my birth mom, she would take me to homes, and like, invite herself over for dinner with friends so that I could get a meal. But then like by then, it had been like, a few days since my last meal. So of course, I’m like, and then he gets so sick, I get so sick. So I, I get it. I get the intensity and requires to provide for someone, I understand that. And I think that I grew up with that resilience of, I need to figure out the next step. before it happens. You know, I moved around a lot. We moved every nine months. And then I also don’t know if I should be saying this on the podcast that I definitely lied on my college application. I didn’t, we’re not going
Natalie Franke
to tell anyone, don’t worry. We’ve got your back. We’re not going to tell anyone.
Diana Wei Fang
I’m on their board now. I had to lie on my college application. Mostly because I couldn’t afford to apply to college. And my friend filled it out for me. So technically, and then she forged my signature. And then she emailed me or she called me it was very, very old. She called me and said, you know, send him your transcript to the school. And I said, I then applied she goes, I did. And she paid for my application fee. That took change. You know, and us moving every nine months that I always moved around to different family members, because eventually she couldn’t take care of me anymore. And that also came with new rules. Every family has their own rules and upbringings. And growing up just as an Asian American in America to assimilation is a really big thing. Even just the way that people say my name. I’m just like yeah, you could say however you want, you know, I have school certificates that say like Ilana i L A. Dave Yeah, truly. Diana’s very difficult. Don’t ask it’s very hard for people to spell. So just assimilation and that I think that’s just the way I grew up. It was. It was never, it was never a question. If I wanted to eat tomorrow, we’re going to figure this out. You know, and probably more intense than most people experienced that. And I definitely acknowledge that. But I think that I have seen what’s possible. Because of it. I know that if I get over the fact of like being embarrassed to ask for help, it will come. You know, if I get over the pride, that’s really what it is, it’s pride of asking for help, being embarrassed to let someone see my living conditions. At the time that I lived in the trailer, there was like a dead mouse in the corner, probably because I definitely not touch with that. And I was 16. And so that’s like a totally different scenario of inviting someone over, you can just invite friends over when you live, it truly was a dead mouse in the corner. It’s just a different kind of take, you know, but I now have also like, graduated, I’m now on the board of that university in one of their committees, you know, I am now like, able to, it wasn’t always easy. I worked for many different corporations. And I figured out my life, but I also like, did it figure out? Let’s be real. I thought I was like, I took the easy way. All the time. When I first started my business, I was like, Yeah, I’m gonna do whatever you need. You want me to write an email, I can write an email, you got to pay me for that. Great. Not what I like, clearly, from this conversation, what I want to do is see you succeed, it took me 30 plus years to figure that out. And even now, like as you talk about experimenting, and like singing so badly, you break the windows that I struggle with that I do, I can’t even sing in my car by myself, no one else is gonna hear me. But I’m like, what if they did? That like, is that ingrained situation, but it comes. It’s just, it’s hard. It’s hard. I know, everyone listening to this podcast right now, is thinking it’s so easy for you to say that because you’re on the other side of it, I get that I do. I get a get what I’m asking you to do is trusting something you you don’t know trusting something you can’t see, trusting an automation trusting an AI. And like, I get that? I do, I really do. But also, that’s what I had to do when I blindly trusted someone to literally drive me from the other side of the country. So I could go to school, you know, because we’re sure we weren’t not flying. That’s what I did to get my first job paying job. I like blindly trusted someone as a host ranch person in Northern California. In case you don’t know, I was born in LA grew up in New York City, Live in Washington, DC cities, I live in cities, and I was a horse ranch. California, because I needed to get paid. Okay. I definitely didn’t know what the other side of that was. I didn’t have an exit strategy, if that didn’t work out. So I know I’m asking a lot when I say you kind of just have to go through it. No, please take it from someone who has gone through a lot of change, that it’s going to work out. You have to believe in yourself more than I believe in you. But if you do, and you’re willing to put in some work with me, Well, then let’s go change the world because I’m ready. You know what I mean? So I know it’s a big ask I get it. Yeah.
Natalie Franke
I’m going to replay that last snippet over and over again, whenever I need a pep talk. I’m going to replay that. Just even as your friend I mean, gosh, you are such an incredible, inspiring, brilliant, hardworking, heart centered. I could go on and on with additives galore. And it still wouldn’t touch truly the magnitude of who you are and the impact that you’ve made over the many years that I’ve known you and our community, both at HoneyBook. And, you know, rising tide, a multitude of communities you’ve always shown up and you know, Diana really does walk the walk. And so, you know, at the at the risk of keeping you all day long, which you know that I would do. I want to lead into our final question and get your take on something that I asked every guest of the show. There is no right or wrong answer. There’s only your answer. But Diana, I would love to know from you. What do you believe is the biggest differentiator between the businesses that succeed and the ones that fail?
Diana Wei Fang
Well? i It’s It’s an attitude. It’s an attitude, it’s something bigger than yourself, I really believe that it’s, again, there’s nothing wrong with putting food on the table, I get that 100%. But when it’s about building a foundation and a legacy, huge game changer, because people want to be a part of that. And it fuels you, it’s really weird to say, because I understand the mounting bills that we all face, I understand that more deeply than most, I’ve had $0 in my bank account more times than you can imagine. But it is the it’s, it’s, that feels like it’s yourself, it’s your own power to put food on the table to pay your bills. But when this is bigger than yourself, people want to be a part of it. If the community you’re gonna find that it’s actually an easier ask for help for community for change for all the things because it is not about you. And the shame breaks off, because it’s not about you anymore. And it’s just a different path. But also, it’s Grant resilience. Because you believe in something that’s bigger than yourself. It’s not just for today, right? It’s for the next five generations. It’s an attitude, the belief in yourself. Again, Natalie, you and I were champions of small businesses. And so we can’t believe in this more than you do for yourself. And that is honestly a hard boundary I’ve had to place because I’m just like, I’m devastated. When someone closes their business, I’m actually really devastated when that happens. And I’ve had to tell myself a few times, I can’t make this happen more than they want to, and that’s honestly for my own protection, more than anything, because I so desperately want them to see them succeed. But the resources are there. The people are there. You’re living proof of it. This podcast, honey book as a company, they’re so generous. And it’s just I think it’s a huge mindset. It’s and systems. Let’s be real.
Natalie Franke
I love that. systems, and systems, not the truth. Diana, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast for folks that want to learn more about you get plugged in connect with you. Where can they do that?
Diana Wei Fang
I am an Instagram girl. You can find me over at the finer point.
Natalie Franke
Amazing. We’ll make sure to link that your website all the things in our show notes. Diana, thank you so much for joining me.
Diana Wei Fang
Thank you so much. It was so fun.
Natalie Franke
That ends our episode of The Independent Business Podcast. Everything that we’ve discussed today can be [email protected]. Head to our website for access to show notes, relevant links and all of the resources that you need to level up. And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so that you never miss our future content. Drop us a review and leave our guests in love on social. Thanks again for listening.
