Natalie Franke
96% of people don’t feel as though they’re living into their fullest potential. Are you one of them? Or are you one of the 4% that truly believes they are at max capacity of everything they are capable of? Today, we are digging into precisely that. I have the opportunity to sit down with the New York Times best selling author of eight books, including soundtracks, one of my favorites, and his newest book, all it takes is a goal, the one and only Jon Acuff Jon talks this today about goal setting about living into your potential and about the roadblocks that often keep us from our greatest success. This episode is packed with information that every independent business owner needs to know and more importantly, needs to implement. Hey, everyone, this is your host, Natalie Frank, and you’re listening to the independent business podcast, more people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process. So on this show, I sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs and creators to break down the science of self made success so that you can achieve victory.
Natalie Franke
Jon, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.
Jon Acuff
Thanks for having me. We’ve already had a great off podcast conversation, so I think this one’s gonna be even better.
Natalie Franke
I’m pumped, I didn’t even give you a second to breathe. When you hopped on the camera, I immediately was like this book, this book. I always love what you write. I’ve always been a big fan of your writing. But I was joking with you. And I said, rarely do I cackle in jury duty while reading a self help book because it just hits home. And I’ve felt at numerous points while reading all it takes as a goal that I was being called out. And I bet the business owners listening are also going to have that experience of like, I’m sorry, what? And yes, and how did you know? And that is exactly who I am and what I’m struggling with. But before we get into all of that, you did some research leading into this book around people and how they feel about whether or not they are living into their fullest potential. And I would love to hear from you. What did you find? What was the research? What did it indicate?
Jon Acuff
Well, I didn’t feel like I was. So whenever I read a book, like, I think this is a good business principle too. So let’s just jump right in the gate with an actual tool people can use, I look for three things, a personal connection, I need to be personally connected to the item. I’m creating the service, I’m creating the book, I’m writing whatever. The second thing is, is there a need to people really need it? Am I hearing people if the neighborhood pool talk about it? Am I hearing clients talk about it? Am I seeing it online? And surveys? What am I finding? And the third thing is, is there a spot for me in the marketplace? Or has it already been overdone? So take the book finish. I wrote this book called finish. I was a chronic starter, I had a million half started things like every entrepreneur has like 50 Terrible GoDaddy URLs. And like they’re like someday I might need copy ninja.tv Like I don’t, I might turn that into something. And it’s like, and my wife and I’s agreement is if I haven’t touched it for a year, I have to release it back to the wild. Like I can’t put it on auto renew because then I’m going to pay for a URL for nine years and be like, Why do I own Okay, let’s write a book. together.me. Like that feels like I’m sure at some point that was brilliant. So I look for Okay, am I personally connected and with finish I was I was a chronic starter and I didn’t finish. Then a bunch of people for the need perspective came up to me and said, you wrote this book called Start I liked it. I’ve never had a problem starting though I can start a million things, how do I finish. And then I went to the marketplace, which for books is Amazon, I typed in finish. And the only thing that came up was dishwashing detergent, because we as Americans, Western culture over celebrates the beginning, and we ignore the middle and the end. So then I had my Venn diagram of that. So that’s a product worth creating. That’s a book worth writing. That’s a service. And so I think from a business perspective, that’s how I look at topics. So when I felt like I had wasted my potential in college, a moment I experienced when I toured my daughter at the college I went to she was going to look at colleges, and I felt this overwhelming sense of regret. I was like, Okay, well, I need to figure that out. I feel like I haven’t tapped into my potential. What do I do with that? And then we did a survey where we asked 10,000 people fish, they think they’re living, you know, 3000 3000 words, this 110 1000 was soundtracks? Are they living up to their potential and 96% said no. So then I had the need. And then I went to the marketplace and so many books about potential were kind of fuzzy and holistic. And I’m a very What do I do with this on a Tuesday kind of guy? Like what Okay, Greg, what do I do with this on a Tuesday? Like, I don’t need the like, the universe loves you. I need the like on a Tuesday, when you have this business challenge. Here’s how you solve it with this thing I just taught you. And so I felt like oh, I’ve got the Venn diagram where it’s worth me spending the years to try to help people with this. Well, let’s go That’s what like that’s what seen so many people say they’re not living up to a potential taught me and then I had the marketplace and a personal connection on Like, Oh, this is gonna be fun.
Natalie Franke
And it is fun. It really is. One thing that you talked about in the book that I wanted to jump immediately into, is you talk quite a bit about the three zones that high performers bounce between, and this community independent business owners, your high performer, period, like low performers
Jon Acuff
don’t listen to this podcast, they don’t even know this category exists. Like they don’t read books like mine. They don’t voluntarily go to events, like most people think high performers or other special people, but I love being able to go no, no, no, if you’re listening this right now, congratulations, you’re a high performer. That’s awesome.
Natalie Franke
Welcome to the club, which means that you’re going to hit certain obstacles that high performers hit because as we know, it’s difficult, it’s difficult to run a business. And so you mentioned three of these zones that you tend to see them fall into. So you talk about the comfort zone, the potential zone and the chaos zone. Let’s talk about it.
Jon Acuff
Yeah, so that was kind of a surprise to me through the research that I’ve heard a million people talk about the comfort zone, like there’s like, you gotta escape again, outside your comfort zone, like get outside the box. But I rarely had heard somebody talk about the chaos zone, which I think is more destructive for high, high performing people, high achieving people. Because the chaos zone is where you do too many actions, too many goals, too many businesses, too many plans, and you get no progress. Comfort Zone is no actions, no goals. But that’s not the problem. Most of the people listening to this podcast, have trouble with, like, the people listen to this podcast when I meet them. And I’ll say, Well, what are your goals, they never go, i have no goals, they go, I have 27 goals. And those are just Tuesday’s goals, just wait till I tell you Wednesdays. And so that’s the chaos zone. And so I related that like, the story I related that to was the tortoise and the hare, which we all know about. And the rabbit was all chaos zone, he was either asleep on the side of the road, or he was sprinting desperately, and he’s still lost. And so the three, those are the two kinds of edge zones, if you think about a line, on one side is the comfort zone on the far other side is the chaos zone. And in the middle is the potential zone. It’s kind of that Goldilocks zone. And what happens unfortunately, as people tend to swing, from comfort all the way over to chaos and back. That’s why we have the phrase yo yo diet, because people bounce, they go, I’m not going to look at any of my business finances, and we really lazy get stuck. And then they go, I gotta know where every fraction of a penny went. And if I find a paper clip that one of my employees bent just because they were fidgeting, I’m going to be furious. And you go, Whoa, that is chaos, you’re not gonna be able to sustain that. Like, you’re really not how do we stay in the middle of the potential zones? That’s that’s what the three zones are all about?
Natalie Franke
Oh, I, first of all, say I’d never heard of the chaos zone. And the minute I started to dig into that I realized, wow, not only is that yes, something I think a lot of business owners experience and struggle with. But it’s never talked about. It’s the thing that we almost don’t want to talk about. It’s we don’t
Jon Acuff
until we burn out like until you destroyed yourself. Nobody mentions it, and we even glamorize it. So we go like, every time I see a business owner, or motivational Instagram guru say I only sleep for hours, I think, right? Well, number one, you’re lying. Or number two, it’s steroids. Or number three, it’s coke. Like it’s one of the three like, Stop it Stop it, nobody, nobody performs well on four hours asleep consistently. Like that’s just not like that’s just by like, biologically impossible. But we glamorize the chaos zone instead of talking about it. And so what this book became for me was, I want long term sustainable success, like that’s what I’m aiming for. So like, one of the phrases in the book is I was late to my 30s, I want to be early to my 50s. And what I mean by that is, I didn’t have a plan, I stumbled through my 20s, I wasted the potential my 20s to, I kind of rolled into my 30s with one wheel flat car was on fire, I had no plan. And now I’m 47. And I’m saying, I want my 60s to be dope. I want my 70s to be dope. So what are the things as a business owner I can put into place with so I have a long term sustainable change, because I meet people that have plenty of success, but they’re on their sixth marriage. And I’m like, That’s not like I always say like, if my if my business succeeds, and my family fails, my businesses failed. Like, that’s just the reality of it. So like, I’m trying to go, how do I stay? I don’t want to the book is like, I don’t want to visit the potential zone. I want to get my mail there. Like I want to be there. So often, I’m a local, I want to be a local to the potential zone, not just experienced at occasionally, because everybody’s experienced it occasionally. So can I stay there? And that’s really what led to going okay, here’s different types of goals that will help with that. But yeah, those are I don’t think we talked about the chaos, so nearly enough.
Natalie Franke
Yeah. And speaking of living in the potential zone, one of the biggest hurdles that we face is ourselves. And this is where I felt particularly called out by your book and I, I’m willing to bet every business owner will can relate to this. You say, the hardest person I deal with every day is me. And then you go on to say, when people say the only person standing in your way is you I think I know that guy is impossible.
Jon Acuff
Yeah, he’s terrible. He knows all my secrets to like, he knows all my weaknesses, like, and then I say, You’re the most persuasive person you’ve ever been. So every bad decision I ever made, I first thought was a good decision. Like, first I talked myself and doing that don’t work out, you should do that. Like, that’s, yeah, let’s do this. And then on the back end, I’m like, why did we do this? You know, this was, it’s because I talked myself into it. And so I think that’s a really universal thing, especially again, I love talking to business owners, because I’ve owned a business for 10 years. And it’s unique, wild, weird, up and down, your identities involved in it’s emotional, it’s got it’s got if you want to deal with every part of who you are, start a business owner business, because it’s gonna get exposed, it’s gonna get, you’re gonna wrestle with it. So I think it’s, I hope business owners do see themselves like you saw yourself in that in that little section.
Natalie Franke
And speaking of the emotion and the identity involved in running a business, you know, another part where I felt called out this is this podcasts going to be called, where independent business owners are called out in all it takes is a goal. You talked about writers, but as I was reading it, I was in your business owners and you write writer say, if only one life is changed by my book, it was all worth it. Because we are afraid it won’t sell. And we’re scared of looking selfish with our goal. Instead, we create fake desires that we think are socially acceptable, and will shield us from future disappointment. We hedge our bets by lying about our expectations, sir,
Jon Acuff
yeah, well, so my point there, and it works for business owners too, like because business owners say the same nonsense they go. I say it, if it only helps one person in my community. Yeah, no, but it’s, I always say if that if you only want to help one person, write them an email, they’ll take three minutes rich text, somebody, like, that’s not your real goal. If you’re going to do to go to the work and the trouble and the hustle and the heart and all this stuff. It should help 100,000 people, it should help a million people. And, and you should be excited about that. But again, as a business owner, you’re like, it’s kind of I don’t mean, it’s hard to talk to people who don’t own businesses about some of this stuff. Because it’s not like just take this, if you work at a huge company, it’s not your money. It’s not your money. So like it’s a budget item. It’s a it’s something you know, like it’s your budget, it’s not your money. So like when you’re a business owner, it’s your money. And what’s interesting is I’ll see business owners underpriced themselves, when they’re dealing with a big company because they’re confused. They think the person they’re dealing with cares about the money the same way they do, because you it’s your money, so they often undersell what they can do, because of that belief that everybody thinks that way they don’t. So business owners have these unique thoughts about that. But again, like I think we did something today, I have this thing called the guaranteed goals community where I help people with goals and we had a like a VIP kind of chat. And we did an impromptu brag table. And a brag table is this thing I do where you have to share something you’re proud of or excited about, because we don’t have spaces to do that. And so people started to share and share and share and share. And so like the internet’s been so hard on that because, like phrases like humble brag, so if you share something you’re excited about people shame you, if you share something, you fail that or you, you’re depressed about a bunch of other sad people come out and go, yeah, it’s the worst life is terrible. So there’s no spot for a business owner to be like, Dude, I just killed it. Like, I just 20x my first salary. I’m not 20x that, alright? This just happened or like, we got out because you’re afraid to like the must be nice police that are going oh, must, must be nice, you know. And so then, to save ourselves from that we do the if one life has changed, like it becomes a shield for us between what we really desire. And again, the main point is a fake does not fake desire will never get you out of a real comfort zone. You can’t fuel yourself with fake desires. You can only fuel yourself with real desires. And no one ever, like gets out of the comfort zone just because no one ever wakes up and goes today I’ll have grit. Today I’ll have discipline like my own business journey. I had a full time job. I had freelance clients. I had two kids under the age of four, we lived in Atlanta. So I had a terrible commute. And I started to blog a little bit and it started to grow. And the joy of that is what changed my behavior. I didn’t change my behavior first. So I didn’t decide. I’m going to stop watching so much TV and start getting up early and making better decisions so that I discover something I love No, no, no, no. I found something I loved and then I couldn’t do. I was desperate to do as much as I could to throw more time into that fire. And that’s what happens with a business owner was where you find something like that. And it doesn’t have to be like a passion in the sense of you become a writer. I’ve heard somebody say like, I don’t like that follow your passion advice, because it’s usually a rich person who made their money doing iron ore smelting, and I’m like, That’s a fair point. But I think you have to find something you’re good at that you enjoy. So it doesn’t have to be like an art. It doesn’t have to be that. But once you do, that’s when you go, Well, I have a real desire. And then you’ll leave a comfort zone like you never like the book talks about there’s two reasons you leave a comfort zone, a involuntary crisis or a voluntary trick. And the voluntary trick is you find something outside of yourself that matters more than staying inside the comfort zone and you go, Okay, I’m willing to go out what’s outside is better than what’s on the inside. And then you start to do it.
Natalie Franke
I love it reminds me when you say, you know, when you play more, you win more. And when you win more, you play more. And even just finding something you’re passionate about, it creates this momentum engine. Oh, right. And it, it’s that and that momentum in and of itself is just such a powerful thing. And it’s the most difficult, like when you’re fully stopped stuck and stagnant to then get into the the prospect of actually moving. That’s the challenge. But then once you start to play, you start to win. And once you start to win, you’re like, I want to keep playing, this is a blast. And I love that I also love in the book, you talk a lot about like games, like you even refer to certain things as like, you know, like the game of this, the game of that. And I found that really refreshing. But just kind of rewinding back a little bit. So let’s say somebody you know, right now is living in the chaos zone, because I agree, I think comfort zones talked about a lot. They’re living in the chaos zone. They’ve got too many ideas, too many dreams, too many businesses, too many Google domains, right, like too many accounts waiting for them to be created. And hopefully all of us have a partner that’s like, look and spend a year you gotta get rid of it. But for those of us who don’t? Where do we start? So?
Jon Acuff
Yeah, totally, I’ll give you an exercise you can do. I call it the time gap analysis. And that I had to do in my own life, because I was the king of the chaos zone, like I got a book signing a big book deal. And my wife said, I don’t think this is gonna work because you’re a jerk for the two years when you write a book, and you’re jerk for the two years when you sell it. And I’d rather you be a happy plumber than a miserable writer. And what you were saying was that my fuel was chaos, my like, stress, like, here’s, here’s how you know somebody on your team is stuck in the chaos zone, they fight process, the person who’s addicted to chaos hates the system, because the system removes chaos. And so it removes their fuel. And so like the person on your team who’s addicted to drama, addicted to chaos, deadline addicted, where I can’t get inspired until the last second, that person will fight process and system at every step of the way, because it’s removing the thing they think they need. So I did this thing called a time gap analysis. And it’s so simple. All I did was I added up the commitments I had made. So I said this was I did this in March, one year, I had three quarters of the year left. And so I said, What are the commitments I’ve made? from a work perspective? How many hours do I want to work? So I said, How many hours do I want to work, vacations, all the stuff, they said, how many hours have I already committed. And then I added like a 10 to 20% unexpected opportunities, because no week is 40 for 40. For me, so I said, Okay, if I want to work 40 hours a week, eight of those hours are going to be unexpected, because new money comes from unexpected spots, that’s the only place new money comes from unexpected spots. So you gotta leave some margin for that. I add it all up. And I was 520 hours short, I was over committed by 13 weeks. So the reason listeners feel busy is because they are busy. The reason they feel out of time is because they’re out of time, just most of us have never looked at our time with that level of clarity. So that forced me to go, I’m 520 hours short. Like there’s ways to deal with like, you can cut your quality, I really don’t want to do that you can, you know, work longer hours. But I’ve said my family is a commitment to me. And so I really had to look at the calendar, I like to say that time is the only honest metric. Like you can manipulate money, you can manipulate feelings, like you can like, but time is like the only honest metric. And then I say, time is our most valuable resource, but it’s also our most vulnerable. It’s also our most vulnerable, it only knows how to flow, it can’t protect itself. It only knows how to do one thing flow flow flow flow, we have to be the protectors. So when you’re in the chaos zone, do that exercise go I feel really chaotic right now. Let me check my time, and see if that’s true. And most people that do that are going to quickly realize they have a deficit. And then you’ve got really like one of three things you can do. You can delete some projects, some goals, some commitments, you can delegate them, like that’ll force you to get better at asking for help. And the best thing I ever heard about delegating was from Judd Wilhite, he said when you delegate something to an employee, they’ll do it 80% of the way you would have done it but you save 100% of the time. And I love that reframe of like I don’t know if they’ve done it 80% of the way I would have done it because I’m unique and they’re unique and they did their own way but I saved 100% of the time by not doing it. That’s a good trade for me. Or three you can delay you can move projects to different parts of your calendar. So that’s a really practical, really tactical way to go. I’m in the chaos zone. How do I get back control over my life, my business let me look at my time, see what’s really happening and then make some Real adjustments.
Natalie Franke
And as a business owner, it becomes a lifestyle staying in that chaos sound
Jon Acuff
it Oh, and it feels good at first like it does like I like the rattling rush. Oh, it’s the dopamine like people people cheer you on. Like, I know I’m into chaos soon when I start really liking when people tell me I’m a machine, they go how your machine gets so much done your machine I’m like, and I start real and like, that’s where so like, for me though I started to make a list of what things do I do, because I feel called to do them as a business owner and what things I do I do because I, they make me feel important. Like I want to do less of that make me feel important. It makes me feel important when I’m at a dinner party and I say, I’ve got 12 people on the team. Do I need 12? People? Maybe not. But I like feet, how it sounds at a dinner party I like because depending on your business, you often get judged as not having a real job. So like somebody goes like, you say what you do, and they go, Oh, that’s cute. That’s like a hobby. And like, you might be making four times as much as that person but because you don’t have something that they understand, like you don’t have a title, like you’re an accountant or a contract or whatever. They go, Oh, yeah, that’s cute. And and you in that moment, you’ll be feel insecure. And you’ll go I’ve 15 employees or like whatever the thing is, but if you don’t need 15 employees, maybe that’s part of the chaos, and you need to pull back and go, Okay, well, how am I doing this? And so those things, I’m always kind of thinking about that in my own life, because it’s a work in progress. It’s not like I’ve finished this, and I’m 100. And I’m, like, reflecting back on a life well lived, like I’m in the trenches, just like everybody else.
Natalie Franke
Yeah, I love that about the way that you write you write from the perspective of a lifelong student. And I’ve always appreciated the brutal honesty that comes with that of how you approach things. One thing just to think about in that chaos, and it came to mind, you know, we talk a lot about business owners like that, that exercise that Jon just gave all of you, I would highly recommend you do and you do it alongside like, especially for those that are service based businesses, that client mapping of your client flow, because one of the things that happens when you get caught in that chaos zone is you can’t actually work on your business, all you’re doing is treading water, you’re a duck, right? Like, on the outside, all the clients look at you and you look calm as can be. But then under the surface, if you’ve ever seen a duck swim, right, their feet are non stop moving. So you know, they may only move, you know a little bit as they’re kind of navigating the water, but their feet are running at a rapid and just wild pace. And so it is important, it’s important to kind of take that moment to pause and say, you know, because I hear all the time, oh, I just don’t have time. I don’t have time. But that what they mean is I don’t have time to, you know, automate my workflow. I don’t have time to build out systems that can run for me, I don’t have enough time to delegate. Like we hear that, like, I don’t have time to delegate. And so
Jon Acuff
it’s just easier for me to do it myself. And you go, Well, you’ve never tried. So you don’t really know, like until you’ve tried it 10 times, you can’t say it’s easier for me to do it myself.
Natalie Franke
It’s so true. It is absolutely so true. Okay, so we’ve talked about chaos zone. But for those folks that maybe still are stuck in the comfort zone, because I do think we talked about the oscillation, a lot of us oscillate, and I have ADHD. And so as you’re talking about chaos, I’m like, well, that’s my dopamine addiction that you’re describing here. But then there’s also the swing that goes the complete opposite direction of, you know, oh, no, no, no, no, I’m just going to stay with what I know, I’m going to stay with, even like how we run our businesses. And we think, Okay, this has been working. So I don’t want to try anything new. I don’t want to leave the margin that you’re talking about for that new revenue opportunity. Because, you know, I just, I just want to stick with what I know. And if I stick with what I know, I will be safe. And we both know that in a world that is constantly changing. When there are new tools coming out all the time. AI is kind of like you name it. It’s shifting. Yeah, that doesn’t really lead to a successful business. What advice then do you have for the folks in that comfort zone? Where should they begin?
Jon Acuff
I think a review is worth its weight in gold. So we’re recording this the middle of the year, like what a great spot, but you have 12 custom design gifted days every year to do a pretty simple into month review. And it’s the last day of the month or the second or last day of the month. So for me, like I say self awareness is a superpower, but you only get to use it if you’re paying attention. And so if I’ll you know, the more I pay attention, and we’ll review something and go, here’s what happened. Here’s how this went. Here’s the real numbers. Here’s what the numbers say like I did that the other day and realize, Wow, this one part of the business is taking a ton of the expenses and giving very little in the revenue. This other part is carrying so much of the weight and will never complain but like this isn’t, this is like even a review where you take away just do this exercise. Take your greatest income stream away from your business and see if the rest of it could be its own business. Because often what happens is you go wow, I have one superstar and four losers that would never make the team but I don’t see that because this one superstar is doing so well. But what if I got rid of the four losers and developed a second superstar like what if I did that and so I don’t think you can really understand what’s going on unless and it doesn’t have to be massive. Like, that’s where all the perfectionist right now are like, Okay, I gotta review everything I do No, no, no, like, pick one part of your business pick one week, pick one month, like don’t make it massive, especially when you’re doing it for the first or second time. So I think a review for me, allows me to see where I’m really headed. And then I can, you know, I did that just the other day, I had my assistant do a pie, a pie chart of all the revenue from all our different streams. And then we had a meeting and people were suggesting ideas. And I would say, well, that that idea fits into the 0% category. It wasn’t big enough for 1% on it. So I really like let’s not, let’s not spend a lot of time lot of money on that, because I got this pie chart. And here’s what you know, like, and you go, Oh, yeah, so I think getting to some numbers is so helpful, because businesses are already emotional enough. But one of the soundtracks I say is that data kills denial, which prevents disaster. So data kills denial, which prevents disaster. So what happens with business owners is they stay in denial, because they don’t want to look at the data, which is the equivalent of somebody who goes, I might be sick, but I don’t want to go to the doctor and find out. So I’m not going to go to the doctor and their cancer runs rampant because they wait a year, two years, whatever. And but the problem is, we don’t like data. The story I always tell is the first time we were at a big restaurant in New York, and we’re all gonna order crazy meals. And the week before they had passed a law that you had to have the calories next to the items. And everybody’s item changed. Everybody’s item changed from like a big crazy cheeseburger into a salad with like grilled chicken and like salad dressing on the side, like your lightest Brown is water like just barely above water. And it was because of the data. Now the meals had the calories whether I knew them or not. That was just data. And so I think the more you can fall and I’m not a data guy by nature, I’m really not like I’m a writer, I’m a messy artists like, that’s not my natural strength. Any more than like, I’m naturally a negative, cynical person. I’ve just tried negativity, and I’ve tried positivity and the ROI on positivity is so much better. So now I work at positivity. But most mornings, I start from a place of negativity, I just have to work really hard to get to positivity because the rewards of positivity are amazing. The rewards of negativity are loneliness, sadness, smaller businesses like failure. Like I know that. Like, I don’t want that I want the other stuff.
Natalie Franke
Yes, speaking of loneliness, you talk about community a little bit in the book as well, which Yeah, I’m a community community builder. So that one always grabs my heart. And I love what you have to say about the fact that, you know, we can no longer really have this accidental community like community has to be intentional in this day and age. And I want to double click in there. Yeah, so
Jon Acuff
the phrase I said was accidental communities over the future is intentional. And I just went through a list of the 10 ways you used to receive bursts of accidental community without even knowing it. So I said, let’s just do this. Let some of the people listening were at a company and they left the company to start their own company, which is one of the loneliest things you can do as a human. And you don’t think about it because you’re like, Oh, I’m going forward. I’m exciting m&m Mom, spaghetti, whatever. And then you realize, I just left accidental community like you when you work in an office, a woman a man pops her head of our cubicle and goes, Hey, we’re all gonna go to that new sushi place. You want to go and you’re like, it’s Tuesday. Let’s do it. That never happens when you have a small business by yourself like in the joke I sometimes do is I know I’m lonely when I overtalk the UPS guy, when like the UPS guy is bringing a box. I’m like, Hey, how’s the family? How’s Pam? And he’s like, I just want to leave this box. Like, can we not? I’m like, I’m alone. I need community. So yeah, I think we get wrapped up in it. And then the other thing is, I think COVID fast forwarded it. I think it fast like COVID threw fuel on a lot of people’s anxieties that they had and they could have worked on over time. But it it made him it made bonfires out of a lot of things, and they’re raging out of control. And I think loneliness is one of them. The phrase I saw this Professor Scott Galloway say was bed writing, where you work from your bed and you never leave your bed. And so and I’m I’m naturally an introvert, like people think I’m an extrovert because I speak on stage. But I always tell people, it’s the most introverted activity you can do. I have one mic. I’m the only one I mean, 100% control. It’s not a conversation, a panel, way harder to me. If somebody goes, we want you to be in a panel of 10 people. I’m like, oh, that’s extroverted. That’s a conversation. Like, that’s hard. And so I’m naturally an introvert. But it just I started to see the rewards of community. So like one of the things I’m doing I have an automatic No, when somebody asked me to do something like as an introvert like if somebody goes Hey, I see you’re coming to town Do you have any time I automatically I don’t have any time No, I’m so busy. I’m so no, I don’t. And so I friend really convicted me about how do you connect with people and then this soundtrack kind of hit me like I just started to think every possibility starts with new people. Every possibility starts with new people. So like if you want other possibilities that your business it’s always going to come via people. So I’ve now made an effort to like it was funny. This week. I was in South Dakota and Maya system thought it was a mistake. She was like, says you got a coffee at three and then like dinner at 530 with a different like is that something happened? I was like, No, I’m doing that on purpose. Like, are you what? Like, because we’ve worked together for eight years. And she knows I’m like, I leave the airport go right into the hotel room. And I usually write or do other things. But now I’m like, No. And now, like I said, yes to this mastermind thing that somebody was like coming for three days to Colorado. And usually I’m like, never, I never. And now like, I’ll go to that. And so like, I’m actively, but you talk about the games relationships is our game to me. And so I’m like, How do I make that a real goal. So I make it a real goal by having a schedule that allows people to fit in it. That’s number one. If you’re so full, as a business owner, you can’t like or you’re so demanding of your time that what happens as business owners as we start to go, I could meet you at like 417 at this one coffee shop that’s next to my house on the third Tuesday, nine months from now. And you’re like, wow, that’s really like we want versus going. Where do you want to meet? Like, where like, what time is good for you? And going like, okay, so I’m trying to put a better priority on community because I think it’s essential.
Natalie Franke
And prioritization, there is like the key word, as I hear that, because we’re always going to be busy, the schedule is always going to be fully loaded, when never now, which you talk about in like a craft, like looking at it as a craft, you’re never going to be done. Right? You’re never going to when they say I’ve arrived,
Jon Acuff
no embracing that. Yeah. Yeah. Ah, okay. So
Natalie Franke
for business owners who, let’s say whether their comfort zone, their chaos zone, or, you know, they’re finding their way towards the happy middle. Goal setting is just intimidating in and of itself. Because I think sometimes we truly, like we don’t know where to begin, or we’ve done goal setting in the past, and it never works out, right. Like, it’s January 1, we all have goals, but by February 1, how many people still remember the goals that they set even a couple of weeks ago? And so take this in whatever direction you want, but what are just some of the real quick bits of advice when it comes to actually setting the goals following through on the goals that you’ve learned in running your business now for well over a decade that you want to make sure our listeners take away?
Jon Acuff
Yeah, I mean, for me, Sunday afternoon, or Friday afternoon, I’m planning the next week. So that’s what I’m doing goals. So I’m going through, I’m interviewing my calendar, and I’m interviewing my notebook. So I’m going, what’s coming up on the calendar, what have I put in my notebook, like my notebooks, kind of like my running to do list. And so I’m kind of interviewing both of those to go, okay. And then what, like, I make a massive list. And then I find a spot for as many of those as I can. And I go, here’s a spot, here’s a spot, here’s a spot. So then I have then I have a week where I know, okay, this is what success looks like, like, this is what this is what I’m doing this is and there’s gonna be surprises in there. And I do that with my like workouts, I do it with, you know, I put real, like, if you don’t plan a workout, it doesn’t happen any more than you didn’t plan a meeting. So I’m like, Okay, on Tuesday, I’m going to do this. And, and so I have a really simple goal technique I use is, what can I do today that makes tomorrow easier? I’m always trying to hook up future me. So I’ll be like, what, what will I be glad I did this week. So that next week is even easier. And so then I’ll know, I’ll go, wow, I got this project with this client on Wednesday, a week from now. And if I do a little bit every day, which is not my natural tendency, like I’m like, wait to the last second guy by nature. I’ll be so glad when I open a week from now, when future Jon opens up, that document goes, Oh, it’s already half done. Like this is amazing. So I do little things like that along the way, and then just figure out what works for you. I think the reason why goals sometimes don’t work for people is that people give them rigid systems that are designed for the person who wrote it. And it falls apart immediately. And so I you know, I’m always saying how do I modify it? How do I modify this? How do I you know, because I’ll hear some other self help book that’s like, you got to do it exactly this way, you got to get up at 3am. And I’m like, and then if you’d like, if you’re a business owner, and you’ve got four kids, and you’re already balancing the million things, that’s not helpful. That feels discouraging. So I’m like, How do I modify it? Somebody said that, to me today. They’re like, hey, what’s the point of reading all these books, if I don’t retain all the information, I was like, who’s aiming to retain all of it, like, I’m not like, I’m looking for one to three amazing ideas. Like if I get one life changing idea from a book that was worth $20, easy, 20 hours for a life changing idea. And I’m reading it for the feel of it, too. So one of my favorite books ever written is The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. And the one thing I took from that, that I still use to this day, 15 days, 15 years later is fear only bothers you when you do things that matter to you, like if you you know as you so the arrival of fear is usually an indicator to keep going not to stop. And so that rewired how I thought about fear. And so I you know, but I wouldn’t say I retained every part of that book. Now, the flip side of that is there’s some books I read, there’s some books I practice. So I read it and I go through it. I can listen to it. 1.5 speed on Audible, whatever. But then there’s some books that I go oh, like your money or your life. I’m practicing that book right now. I’m reading it. I’m trying the activities, and I’m trying the exercises. So that book will take me, I read it probably in two weeks, it’ll take me six months to put it into practice. That’s different. So you also don’t have to read or do your goals the same. You get to kind of modify it to you. But yeah, I, I look like and then the last thing I’d say, I think that I try to present goals in a way that doesn’t intimidate or overwhelm somebody right away. So I honestly believe everybody can make a million dollars. I really genuinely believe that, like, I really do. But I talked to a friend about that I could tell he was like, oh, like, so then I was like, I think you can make 100,000. And he had an easier time with that. And then I talked to some other friends. And I was like, I think you can double your income and that they understood that made them excited. Because if you make $50,000 a year, and somebody goes think you can double your income, you know, the the number 50, you’re not afraid and the number 50. And you go, I can see that. Where if he’s, if somebody tells me you can 50x your income. I’m like, Nah, that I don’t that that feels like pro wrestling, I call a lot of motivational advice, pro wrestling, where it’s just like, it’s not true. It’s just exciting. It’s just not like I know, like, it’s the equivalent of pro wrestling. And I’m like, like, it’s fun to see, and it’s shiny. But I don’t think you’re really living that. I don’t think I heard somebody say like, you should start your day, every day doing two hours on the goal that matters most. And I was like, Who? Who has that life? Like who? Like of course, like there are some things that are technically right, but not practically. Right. And that’s not practically right. And so I’m trying to create goals for people that are busy, that have families that don’t want to lose themselves in it like and go, okay, yeah, technically, if you did two hours a day for seven days a week, it’s 14 extra hours, like great, of course. But practically, here’s how to do it. Here’s like, here’s what to do. So that’s how I think about goals is like, How can I help somebody do them in a practical way, which isn’t a sexy word, but I don’t care about the initial sexiness of it, I care about the sustained success of it. So like, if I can get you to sustain the success over a long period of time, your life changes versus you bought the thing got excited, and then didn’t do the thing and felt discouraged, like I left you even more discouraged with the hype, you know,
Natalie Franke
poof. Jon, this has been incredible. There is one final question that I have for you. And I asked this question of all the guests on the independent business podcast, and no one has answered it the same since we started asking it, which is what I love. There’s no right or wrong answer. But I would love to know from you, Jon, what do you believe differentiates the businesses that succeed from the ones that fail? Or what is the biggest differentiator? What is that thing that kind of stands in, in the in the way?
Jon Acuff
Yeah, so I do this speech about empathy. And I say that this is the six word formula for empathy. Read less minds, ask more questions, like read less minds, ask more questions. And people in the grammar, I know it should be fewer. But less is a better rhythm, and rhythm as a dancer. So we’re I went with less than an idea. But I found over the years that it’s really expensive and time consuming to invent the need. It’s really fun to meet a need. And there’s a big difference. So I find that the companies that meet a need, versus trying to invent the need, have a lot easier go. And so they meet the need, they super serve that need. There’s real people that are excited they fix that they can’t they’re they’re thrilled that it’s there, versus trying to force something on a populations like I don’t even know what this is, I don’t know, I don’t think I need it. So if I can figure out okay with empathy, what are the questions? So like, for instance, I’ll give you an example. So I have a newsletter, that are sending out every Friday, and we did a big customer survey. And one of the top things were people are overwhelmed. Like I am a content machine a people say on my machine call back to earlier. And I was sending out too much content, because I’m a content guy. So it’s like, I think every problem should be fixed with additional content. And they said like Uncle in essence, like it’s too much. So we changed it to twice a month. And we changed the name. It’s called the try this. And now it’s better content, like I spend more time on it. And that starts with a wicked short version for busy people takes 30 seconds to read. I’m from Massachusetts. So wicked is our word for very, and, and it’s really good content. So like, I’m able to say there’s a short version, there’s a long version, here’s something I think you should actually do. It’s a gov.me/newsletter If you’re curious. And so for me, that was me responding to the audience, but I had to ask the question, so that I could respond. And so like that’s, to me, that’s the difference. And the story I tell from stage sometimes is when I worked at Bose we lost multi billions of dollars, because we had a huge head start in consumer headphones like we are crushing but then consumers started to change what they Want instead we want colors. We want different designs, we want different aesthetics. And we didn’t listen, because what we cared about was sound quality. And the sound quality is amazing. But customers wanted something else. We ignored it, Dr. Dre listened, Dr. Dre and beats listened and killed us with an inferior product. Like they. And the joke I’ll do like, and it’s my favorite joke to do from stage, I’ll say, you know, Dre killed us, blah, blah, blah. And I’ll say we broke the first rule of electronics. And then I’ll hold the pause, and I’ll go, we forgot about Dre. And everybody in the crowd is not expecting that line. And it’s just just like, it’s such a fun line to kind of turn because there’s this part of your brain called Broca. and broke his job is to file away ideas. And so as soon as you see something that goes, this reminds me of that restaurant or this and you have to surprise Broca if you want your idea to stick so when I do a Dr. Dre joke in the middle of a serious story, it surprises Broca and it keeps the audience engaged. And so things like that I think are fun.
Natalie Franke
Never did I think we’d end an episode by talking about Broca’s area on the podcast, but of course yeah, as the neuroscience nerd you just made the day I know all about
Jon Acuff
I could see you go Yeah, of course. Of course.
Natalie Franke
Oh, yeah, of course. Of course. Gorgeous area. Okay. Folks are gonna want to know where they can learn more about you get connected, follow along, where shall we send them?
Jon Acuff
Yeah. Jon acuff.com is my website jnacuff.com You can read the first 18 pages of the book at ATG book.com a TG book.com I have a podcast called All it takes is a goal were interviewed people about the goals are working on this super fun to do podcasts, you know, you know that better than anybody. Yeah, and then Instagram I’m Jon Acuff, and then I’m all over the place. Yeah, if you look up Jon Acuff, you can usually figure it figure out where I am.
Natalie Franke
Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Yeah, thanks
Jon Acuff
for having me. It was a blast.
Natalie Franke
That ends our episode of The Independent Business Podcast. Everything that we’ve discussed today can be [email protected]. Head to our website for access to show notes, relevant links and all of the resources that you need to level up. And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so that you never miss our future content. Drop us a review and leave our guests some love on social. Thanks again for listening.
