Akua Konadu
surprised, okay, obviously, I’m not Natalie. But we’re gonna see her here in just a second. I have had the pleasure of interviewing Natalie in honor of her book, gutsy, that comes out next week. And y’all when I tell you, this book is truly, truly life changing, we talk about all the things we talk about, what does it mean, to stop allowing other people’s opinions to get in our way, and be who we truly are, and go for our dreams. This book, I know, in this conversation, you are going to enjoy just as much as I did. So stop whatever you’re doing, put on those headphones, do whatever you got to do. And join me for this conversation. It was truly truly a blast. So let’s get into the episode.
Natalie Franke
Hey, everyone, this is your host, Natalie Frank, and you’re listening to the independent business podcast, more people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process. So on this show, I sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs and creators to break down the science of self made success so that you can achieve victory.
Akua Konadu
Obviously, we’re here talking about gutsy, which I have read. And the one thing that I want to say is, is that you’ve changed. You have changed. And I feel like you are it’s just been beautiful to see your evolution. It’s been amazing. I feel like Natalie has arrived. Natalie has arrived. She is here and she is home. And you and for me it felt just so damn good. And so how are you feeling
Natalie Franke
about it? You are 100% Spot on. I’ve changed in the first chapter of gutsy I say you know, and I’ve joked to friends, I’m like, you know, built to belong. It’s a hug. It’s a warm cup of tea.
Akua Konadu
warm cup of tea. Gutsy.
Natalie Franke
Yeah, it’s not. It is a kick in the pants. It is a rallying cry. It is I say like, I’m like, you know, this isn’t a sweet bell pepper, we’re going habanero are hotter here. And there’s a reason for that. You know, I truly believe in my heart, that the thing stopping so many people from going after what they want in life, the thing that keeps so many people from truly pursuing what uniquely they have to offer and give this world is this fear. And often this fear is rooted not in their own opinion of themselves, but in the opinions that they believe others have of them. And often those opinions that they’re imagining aren’t even true. And we are so held back by that. And you know, in all the work I do with small businesses. And you know this like right before the pandemic, we picked a very convenient time to sell our house and pack up into a suburban January 2020. Number 120 20 is going to be our year was 2020. We’re like this is it. This is all of our year
Akua Konadu
going all out. I’m gonna accomplish everything. Yes,
Natalie Franke
yes, we were like, that’s the year of course, my word of the year was home. I remember that. Yeah, I really have not lost on me now. But 2020, we pack up, we get you know, on the road, and we’re going city to city and we drove from Annapolis, Maryland, all the way down south to Miami, and then around the tip of Florida and all the way across the United States to California and back up the California coast. And in every single city that I went into on that road trip I was meeting with and hugging business owners talking to them about their businesses. And it amazes me that even the most successful business owners that I’m having conversations with, are still struggling with this. It is not something that you overcome. You know, it’s not something that you can get over I even say and I think chapter one or chapter two, where I’m like if anyone’s ever told you just stop worrying about what other people think, yes, you can’t. Yeah, your brain is wired to care. So it’s not about you know, something that it’s not something that you can just dismiss or ignore. We’re really dealing with this. And it’s the very thing that holds high achievers back entrepreneurs back parents back. You know, it impacts every area of our life, and it never really goes away. So why aren’t we talking about it? Why aren’t we talking about the fact that we do feel deeply concern for the opinions of others.
Akua Konadu
And I think we don’t fully admit it to ourselves, but we easily get caught up in it. That’s what I love so much about this book, is because even you also offer a lot of tangible exercises in there, which I love. Because it’s they’re simple exercises, right? Like it’s, I think sometimes a lot of us, especially when dealing with fear, we’re looking for the answer to be this very extra big thing. And usually the answer is typically right in front of us. And it’s usually pretty simple to do. It might just be uncomfortable, it just might be uncomfortable. We have this expectation like No, no, there needs to be more like I have to do more work in order to be able to accomplish this specific like to get over this specific thing. And that’s just never never the case. Yeah, and I loved what you said of how gutsy can really just mean differently for every like for so many of us. We all have our own struggles. We’ve all walked through so many different things. So somebody sitting next to me what they can’t get over, I can easily do but you know, if it’s vice versa, we all have our own thing. So you just have to really build and think about what being gutsy means to you. And then move forward, which is what I love about that. So what are your thoughts? Like what is God see me mu? Oh, look
Natalie Franke
at you turn that around, because I’ve been asking everybody now for weeks, like what does it mean to be gutsy for you? You know, the way that I would answer that is this book is one bit of evidence that I am moving into my guts era. And I think that’s what you felt when you were reading it cuz you know me well. Oh, yeah. And you the first thing you said, when you finished reading and you came down, you’re like, This is different. This is different. And I think that’s, you know, what gutsy means to me is having an opinion. Gutsy means voicing that opinion. Gutsy means pursuing the things I know I need to be pursuing even if I fail. And then when I fail, it means getting back up and not caring if I look like a fool, not caring if there are critics and naysayers are like I told you she wasn’t going to do it. I told you she wasn’t going to succeed it that. Who cares? I did it anyway. There’s a section later in the book real far back towards the end, where I talk about a woman that I admire immensely. Simone Biles, and I talked about her decision to withdraw from the Olympics. And I talked about the fact that because that was all unfolding, as I was writing the book, I was witnessing, as people who had never set foot in that arena had a heck of a lot to say about her decision. And it was that reminder to me as well. And to everybody else out there that yes, there are always going to be people that have opinions about what you decide to do what you say to go after. But being gutsy means that the opinion you hold of yourself should always matter more than the opinions that others have of you. And it means that that is your compass that is your Northstar, not you know, somebody watching you from a distance, who has a lot to say, how do you feel about that decision. And in that moment, Simone chose her health. In this moment, I’m choosing to have a voice. And I’m choosing to fight for things I love and believe in both through my writing with gutsy and in the work that I do every day for small business. And sometimes it’s easier than other times. Like sometimes I don’t necessarily need to pull on that courage to get up and get moving. Yeah. But there are other times where, you know, I still struggle, a little bit with the doubt. And I still struggle a little bit with the fear. And again, like we talked about, it’s never gonna go away. But I’m choosing to do it scared anyway.
Akua Konadu
Yeah. One thing I will say is, as business owners, I feel like sometimes there is a disconnect. But even in terms of success and stuff, like when we talk about success, and all the things that we did to get there. We never ever fully highlight to be in our work. Never do. Right? Especially when we’re wanting the content. I want to know how much like how, you know, I wonder how this person made millions of dollars and on data data, and you’re doing those exact same steps, but you’re not getting the same results. Well, why is that? You’re not doing the internal work, you’re not healing your traumas. You’re not you know what I mean? You’re not taking a hard look in the mirror and being realistic about where you truly are. Because even if you had that success, what are you going to do with it, especially if you’re not in the right framework, if you’re not in the right mindset, and I’m not saying that you have to be fully healed in order to gain something. But what I’m saying to you is, you said this a couple of weeks ago, new levels, new devils, I heard it somewhere I think I’ve heard from the YouTube like, I’ve been hearing that word lately, because the problems will get bigger as you grow your business. So are you going to be in the right place to receive the good that is coming to you? But also to when you are facing that conflict? How are you going to handle it?
Natalie Franke
And what’s the story you’re telling yourself when you’re going through it? Yes, the last five years of my life, and I just sort of turned a pretty big corner. Personally in the past couple months, the last five years of my life have looked like getting told by brain surgeons I need to go in for brain surgery, going in for brain surgery, spending months recovering, and heck, I’m still different than I was before that moment. Then going through fertility, treatment, getting pregnant, high risk pregnancy, preeclampsia, giving birth, postpartum, repeating the process. This time, it’s harder IVF. That’s been my five years. My five years I’ve been going through it. So I think another thing that you know, This all brings up for me and around being gutsy. Is that amidst those five years, I’m not the same person. If you chatted with Natalie, Frank, prior to that moment, I don’t know that you’d recognize me. I think if I walked in the door, you’re like, I don’t know who she is. And I’m proud of that. I don’t say that to be like, Oh, I you know, yes, of course there are pieces of me that I left behind. But there was a refinement process, going through hard things. It does change us how we communicate that story within ourselves that inner work of once we’ve survived it or heck, even as we’re going through it. What are we telling ourselves now are we stepping into a space where I, you know, and I and I know this is the part because when you get down, I was like, did you get to that part? There are going to be seasons also, though, when I say this, where we can’t be the only ones supporting our inner work process, because I’ve gone through those to where I actually need somebody to step in, and to help me community to carry me time and time again. But nonetheless, those five years were a lot of work that nobody ever saw. Those five years, the way I showed up, not just in my business, and not just in my family. But probably most importantly, the way I showed up for myself, in loving myself, despite the changes that were happening to my body, loving myself as my mind change, loving myself through chronic illness through navigating recovery, loving myself, learning my own skills and weaknesses as they changed because I changed becoming a parent and realizing some things I’m good at. And some things I’m not so good at. But I’m still worthy, I’m still enough, I’ve still have something to offer, going through burnout, all of these things. And these are not just unique to me, these are very much experiences that many people feel and go through in their business in their life. Going through all of that nobody on the outside saw the inner work that was happening. But the inner work is the work that matters most the inner work is the work that’s leading to any conversation we’re having today or this forward for all of us. So I don’t think we’d like to talk about it, because it’s not sexy. Yeah, we don’t like to talk about because it’s stigmatized. You know, whenever we bring up therapy, I’m always like, there’s somebody out there rolling their eyes. My hope is that one day, they’re not rolling their eyes. Because it is a powerful tool to work with a professional, a mental health professional, you know, and so whatever it is, I think that inner work is so important. We just don’t talk about it.
Akua Konadu
We don’t at all. And like I said, I feel like that’s treated so separately, especially with like our success, our business and all these other things. We act like they’re different. They’re different we do we keep it apart, man. And so even that story definitely got to me. And there were so many things that you had shared within that. But I love this quote, and I said that we talked about to you’re gonna read a couple quotes, but never underestimate the power of transforming your understanding of a prior moment. So even you looking back, right? Even the things that you were saying now, like, it’s changed the way that you show up, it changes every single decision that you make, because you’ve done the work, to process it, to deal with it to welcome the negative emotions, right. I think sometimes we view emotions as a bad thing. And there was another story that well, there was a piece that you said in relating to that story about how you just broke Yeah, you were shattered. And what I loved about that is that you saw the beauty in shattering sometimes that is the unanswered prayer. Sometimes that is what you need to get to the next step. So instead of a lot of the times us shying away from it, and of course it still sucks, but welcome it allow the waves like I think is it like a rock with with rate waves crashing it was like a quote one of your favorite quotes, and it’s like, allow that to come hate you.
Natalie Franke
Yeah, so they’re, they’re sort of uh, so for folks who haven’t read it yet are going to read their story in the book where I talk about the expectations and pressures that we feel. And if you’re a business owner, I know you’re nodding your head right here. Like you’re like, Yep, I pressures. Sorry, what, like pressures are my best friend. They’re here every day, you feel the weight of the world, all the shoulds of who you you know, you should be you should be doing this, you should be launching that you should be making this. There are a lot of shoulds and a lot of pressures. And I talk about how, from a very young age, I was always told Ben not break. Yes, Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben Ben. And that chapter is about, but what if you spend your whole life bending and shrinking and trying to fit some mold that other people expect from you trying to be the business owner that you think you need to be trying to follow their formula to success and you’re bending and bending under all that pressure? Is that really the life you want to live and is breaking so bad after all, and I talk about the fact that you know, I share a story of a season in my life where I didn’t just break, I truly did shatter. And in that I realize that very often breakdowns or breakthroughs in disguise, that very often the vet the things that we think are going to destroy us are the foundation from which we build our greatest successes. You have to be able, though, to look back on the stories of your life that have held you in those cyclical mindsets of pain and suffering and shame and guilt, and have the courage to also acknowledge that you are the author of your own story. You can rewrite that story in your own mind. And that is one of the exercises that I have in the book where I say, you know, think back to a moment, you know, think back to a time in your life where you felt that criticism somebody said something nasty about you or you know, doubted you or gossip got back to you or whatever it was Is that really, really like it hurts still? You feel it still, then is there a way for you to rewrite that story? Is there a way for you to change and transform your relationship to the past such that you can move forward, not that you forget. Not that you need to eliminate it. But instead that you need to understand that there is very often a story you can tell the gives you the power in the present, to make prolific impact in your life to go out and do the things that you might be afraid to do. Because you’re still holding on, you’re still telling yourself that you’re that person from the past. The one they laughed at the one they teased, the one they made fun of the one who struggled, you’re still telling yourself that story. And while there is beauty in knowing your past and being honest and open, there is also beauty and acknowledging that that very thing helped to shape you into the person who’s uniquely suited to go out and make your dreams happen.
Akua Konadu
So much goodness. It’s just I sound so cheesy, but I loved it. I love that because that’s the rawness and the realness that I was pleasantly surprised to like to get in the book. I’m like, she’s going there. She’s not sugarcoating it. Right? Because I kind of have to be honest, I was like, alright, gutsy. Great, right? Like, the way that I thought that this book was going to be is completely different. Right? I thought, okay, great. Like, it’s gonna be another book, just just really inspirational. And
Natalie Franke
I’m gonna make some self help authors very mad. There are a couple sections in here where I’m like, you’ve heard this advice. No, yeah. No, let’s talk about the the neuroscience behind why that doesn’t even work. Or, you know, can we just be honest, I promise to be honest. And at the end, it’s event? Yeah. Yeah,
Akua Konadu
I just was like, this is totally different from a really good, fresh perspective that I think many of us needs. And I personally just felt a lot of shame just wither away. Because there were just certain things that we as people humans in the way that our brains are wired, that we just can’t help. So no matter what, it’s just going to keep coming anyways. But how can I just equip myself in a very healthy way to, to go after what I want? But even you know, when we think of pursuing our dreams, we always, of course, you want to be hopeful, right? Like, yes, like, you know, I want to accomplish this in the present. But what if we don’t, right? It makes it harder for us to try again. And so this just, I just felt so powerful, I felt powerful that I can, I knew that things aren’t still going to be easy. It’s very, like realistic, I knew that things aren’t going to be easy. But I now have the tools. And my mindset has changed to where I’m ready and willing to just take anything on. So I hope that was a objective reason why you wrote this book.
Natalie Franke
Well, watch out world because yeah, it is the objective. Because what happens when the occurs with the world realize just how powerful and incredible they are. Yeah, watch out. That’s what I want from this book. If you ask me, What’s the objective of this book, like my goal in writing it is, I believe the world is better when people truly feel empowered to step into the things that only they can do, where they stop hiding. I don’t want anyone taking their dreams to the grave. That’s what I and it’s also selfish, because the moment that other people start to bring that power that they have to offer their voice, their talent, their gift, their creativity, their genius, whatever it is, they bring it to the table, they bring it boldly, without apology. Yes, this world is is rattled for the better. And we need more of that. This is a moment in time where we need more of that. And so my hope is I’m glad you felt that way. Because that’s that’s what I wanted. And I, I can’t wait years from now, you know, just to hear the impact that that that mindset shift can have? Oh, yeah, no, I think the ripple effects from it.
Akua Konadu
I love that you were just talking about there is power in showing up fully as yourself. And it’s not an easy thing to do. I feel like again, a lot of these things that we were like, yeah, yeah, I know it. Of course, of course. But are you doing it? Are you living it out in your day to day? Right. And I think just you mentioned it briefly to in the book, like it’s for some people or certain places, it’s you can’t fully be yourself. Right? You literally said it’s a quote here fitting in comes with safety and privilege standing out comes with risk. Correct. And it is very, very true. Correct. But then you said this here, which, like totally stuck with me, there’s only one thing that is more terrifying than being who you truly are. And that is abandoning your authenticity and retreating into the person that the world expects you to be. Is that a risk you are willing to take to spend your life being a fraction of the person that you really are to surrender your uniqueness, your potential, your purpose at the altar of other people’s approval? Hell no, I’m not doing that. Exactly. Is that a risk you are willing to take? Yeah. When you really stop and think about it. I’m not willing to take that risk for what wasted another day of my life trying to appease other people. While I’m still struggling and weathering like I’m not doing that and I deserve more you do
Natalie Franke
you do you deserve a life Beyond the opinions of others. Exactly. You deserve that.
Akua Konadu
So it’s like give yourself the truth of honesty, like the gift of honesty of where you’re really at and tackle these things. So I really love that. And there’s another thing that I also love, but I want you to read it, okay? Because I feel like when we’re going through anything, and that you don’t have to be going in to throw anything when you’re in a season of life, and there’s something new that you want to do. And that voice in your mind starts saying all of these limiting beliefs are like what people are gonna think of me? Am I gonna look like an idiot? I don’t feel like I can do it because somebody else is doing it. That’s a big one in business. Big one and business. People need to need to say this. So I totally want you to read this. Okay. It’s the last one. Yeah, okay.
Natalie Franke
I’m going to read it and then I’m going to give additional content. Yes. Okay. Don’t you dare forget who the hell you are. Don’t you forget what you have overcome? What you have survived, what you have accomplished? Don’t you dare forget how loved you are strong you are. Don’t you dare give up now. So those are the words that my husband said to me shout out to you. When I was struggling at my darkest point with postpartum depression, after Carlos birth, and in the book, when we talk about shattering, I tell the story of going through a season where I was in the depths of it. I really was. And I felt like every morning I woke up, and it was just difficult to get out of bed me being gutsy in that season, was waking up in the morning. So when I say it’s different for each person in each season of life, that’s what I mean the same courage for when I’ve, you know, stepped on a stage in front of 1000s of people publish something into the world didn’t hold a candle to the courage it took me to get up out of bed and depths of postpartum depression. And there’s a moment where you know, my husband, I just remember coming up to me and kind of holding my shoulders and just saying, Natalie, remember who you are told you dare forget who the hell you are. You have overcome so much you have survived so much, you have accomplished so much. Fight. I need you to fight. This is
Akua Konadu
why I came prepare y’all.
Natalie Franke
And sometimes we just need to be reminded who we are. And it doesn’t, you know, have to this is a very personal moment for me. But I’m telling you, there are business owners out there who have dreams, there are people who have wanted to chase after something their entire lives and their life is racing them racing by passing them by. And I just wish they had a hue they had somebody they have me they have gutsy where it’s saying to them, like remember who you are. Because every day you don’t show up and you don’t go after those things that you uniquely have to offer this world. You’re not just robbing yourself of that opportunity. You are robbing the world of the gifts that you bring to the table and acknowledge those things you’ve overcome. Don’t be ashamed. Be proud. I’m not ashamed of the things I’ve struggled with. I talk openly about my mental health, I talk openly about having a benign brain tumor going through infertility treatment struggle, I talk openly because when I shine a light on it, and I and I’m acknowledging that there is no room for shame in my story, I am giving myself and others permission to to move forward. And the same applies to you. When you remember who you are. And you remember what you’ve overcome. You are that much more ready to go forward into your future. So yeah, that was huge. Who gets all the credit?
Akua Konadu
The credit because Ruth is out here looking at me like girl I told you not to make me cry. Give me a look. When I read that. And I thought of every single thing that I have been through to get here. Why the hell would I bow out now? Right? So let me get up, brush myself off and keep going. Even if I have to crawl, scratch I don’t hear even if all I moved that day was a flippin millimeter. It was literally further than I was yesterday. I have worked too damn hard, right? Like, we have worked so damn hard to be here. Yes. There’s a reason why we are at this specific place in our life. And when you think about the journey, you’re like, this is nothing let me get up and get going.
Natalie Franke
What was its I don’t even like the term small business anymore. There’s nothing small about it. There’s nothing small about what you’ve done. The moment you decide to become an independent, nothing. Nothing. If you move one inch. I love a coup it like you’re 100% Right. We somehow believe the lie that you know, and we hear all the time. It’s like, you know, it’s not that big of a deal. I just I’m just I wish I was in the book too. I say I hate the word just, you know. I’m just a blank. There’s nothing small about what you are doing. All that you have put in to declare yourself an independent business owner, the courage that it takes to put your heart and soul on the line, to hone a skill set to hone a craft to say, I’m going to put my entire purpose out there for the world to see to criticize or ridicule, but I’m doing it because I know that it’s going to make an impact. I know that it is exactly what I need to be doing. I just hope people realize like, remember who you are. Remember who you were the day you decided that you would rather pursue a life on your own terms and build an empire for somebody else. Remember who you are, when you took that leap of faith and you bet on you. When the rest of the world didn’t, you still believed you had the possibility of achieving your dreams, you believed you were capable. That’s not a small feat. Remember who you are in business in life. And when you see a friend out there, or if you need a reminder, be that light when somebody else needs it. If you see a friend struggling, remind them who they are. Yes, because for me, that was a moment where I needed my partner to come in, and I needed him to be that voice for me. And so I just hope like business owners listening to this, please, please, please know, you are already gutsy. The question just becomes for your future. As you look forward. What are those things that you really want? That you have either been denying yourself? Because you are afraid? Or because other people have told you that it’s not possible for you when you believe their criticism over your own belief in yourself?
Akua Konadu
Right? You said this as well. Courage is not competition.
Natalie Franke
Courage is not a competition.
Akua Konadu
What did you mean by that? By the way,
Natalie Franke
I mean, that very oftentimes, we assume we can decide who’s more courageous, based on what we see on the outside, that we like to make snap judgments and say, Oh, they’re very brave. But if I were to ask you in a roomful of people to line everybody up against the wall, most courageous to least courageous, how would you do it? You can, you can. And I say this to say that there are battles people are fighting every single day that none of us will know anything about. And the courage that they bring to the table just by showing up and walking outside their door needs to be recognized by them. First and foremost, don’t discount the very courage that it takes you to show up in your daily life, the things that you write off as, but I just, I just have to give yourself a moment today to just feel that and sit in that and acknowledge the courageous choices you make from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed. Give yourself the credit for it. Because once you start to realize you are capable, it’s building blocks. It’s building blocks. Courage is a muscle. It’s a muscle that we build, and we grow. But when I say Courage isn’t a competition, what I’m really trying to get at is please don’t discount the courage that it takes for you to show up as yourself every single day. Don’t look at somebody else bungee jumping and say, well, they must be braver than me. Yes, yes. Again, like I said, I’ve been bungee jumping. I’ve gotten a tattoo. I was the first in my family to get a tattoo I wanted in my whole life. And I set off a chain reaction. I’m sorry, my mom up in heaven, like I did. She was like, she was never a fan of tattoos. And now my whole family’s tatted up, okay, it’s my fault for my tiny little boy. It took a lot of courage for me to go get that tattoo for me in that moment. Maybe not for everybody. But bungee jumping, getting a tattoo speaking on stages books, as I said, there have been moments in my life we’re getting out of bed, were a heck of a lot harder than any of those things that the world would say were braver, the world would say, Oh, that was courage right there. It wasn’t. And I think it’s important for us to remember that as we move through through our own journey and battle with what it means to be gutsy. Because we can be so quick to discount ourselves and then put everybody else on a pedestal as if they are the brave ones. And we are the ones that don’t have the courage that you know, we do have we just don’t acknowledge it.
Akua Konadu
Absolutely. I mean, whether it could be one day that you’ve signed your dream client and your business is hustling and bustling to the next day. You can’t even get up out of bed.
Natalie Franke
Yep, yeah, but even the client like Do you remember what it felt like to book your first client? Oh, yeah. Think about the amount of courage it takes to even put a service out there and book that first client
Akua Konadu
I just remember the fear like how terrified I was right? Like I think all of us will even just finally launching your business because you’re like, I can’t I can’t turn back. No, it’s out there. Now there now it’s out there. Now I was like, well, we got to figure it out. You know, but it was just such an empowering feeling. But like I said, no matter what stage of business like you said that earlier, you’re always
Natalie Franke
always dealing with it just like you might not have the same you might not need to draw up that same level of courage you might not have the same insecurities about booking a client five years in that you did on that first client where you’re double checking every line in the email you know, it’s like when you first start dating somebody I don’t know my husband always says used to double check he’s spellcheck This is back for like Grammarly spell check his aim messages to me. Yeah, it’s like, I don’t want you to think I was stupid. I was like spell checking everything. You know, that’s the level of, you know how you might feel with that first client versus five years and you’re not even your booking clients and you’re not even thinking about it. That doesn’t mean that you don’t need to draw on that courage. That doesn’t mean that you don’t need to Be gutsy. It just looks different. Yeah. And that’s the key. It just looks different.
Akua Konadu
Yes, absolutely. I love that. I wanted to shift it a little bit because I want to ask you, I want opinions.
Natalie Franke
Opinion me. There’s a whole chapter about opinions. Exactly. And
Akua Konadu
we, we do we get caught up in people’s opinion, we do even sometimes where I’m like, I don’t care what nobody thinks of me. Like, we all do that, right? We all will be like, oh, yeah, I don’t care. I don’t care. But when it really boils down to it, we absolutely do care. So somebody, you know, you’re out there a lot. Like now you show up for everybody. A lot of people know who you are. Have there been times where you have failed publicly? Yes.
Natalie Franke
And how many? How long do you have
Akua Konadu
answered? How did you deal with that with especially people people love to put their two cents in? We all do we all do it, we all have opinions about everything good or bad. And a lot of us, you know, we all state our opinions, and we just move on. But we never stopped to think about how it actually affects the person that we gave the opinion to, because now they’re stuck with it. They’re carrying it, they’re carrying that burden of what you just said to them. So while you were, you know, skipping away, they’re stuck with it. And so I kind of asked like multiple questions within that. But let’s break it down.
Natalie Franke
So, in the book, I talk a lot about opinions. And there’s some interesting science on opinions that I won’t bore the non nerds out with. But I will say if you’ve ever thought yourself, I’m not really influenced by because I hear a lot, I’m not really easily influenced. And it’s like, well, your brain science says differently, you know, not that you’re easily influenced, but that we are far more impacted by the opinions around us that we often realize, yes, our brain is wired to push us towards agreeing with the opinions around us. That’s a safety mechanism. If you don’t agree with the opinions, you’re surrounded by you’re at risk, you’re at risk of authorization, you’re at risk of being thrown out. And as we know, throughout human history being, you know, removed from the community is not fared well, you know that it was certain death and many points of our evolution. And so I say all that to say that you do pay a lot of attention to the opinions of others, whether you realize it or not, you will have a tendency to absorb the opinions that surrounds you, whether you realize it or not, your opinion will even start to move like if you move parts of the country, you might notice your political ideology shifting as you move. This is part of the brain. This is this is this is part of who we are. And I talked about in the book. And there’s some really great sources cited in there from the scientists that did this research. I obviously am not one of them. But I say all that to say, you know, opinions carry a lot of weight in our lives. And when it comes to running a business, and it comes to running a business in 2023. People have opinions and your world, your life is a spectator sport, everybody’s watching. And so you have to develop a muscle of learning that again, the opinion you have of yourself needs to be louder, needs to be stronger, it needs to be firmly rooted, such that when you are challenged by differing opinions, you’re not immediately defensive. You’re not immediately running to hide or feeling like you’ve been attacked, you have the ability to take like we were talking about feedback that we’ve gotten on the podcast. Yeah. And and at first, I was like, Look, I know this feedback is really critical. But let’s find the truth. Yes, that comes from practice, right of saying, I know, I’m really proud of this work that I put out there. I also know that other people’s opinions do have value, and that I can listen to them even when they’re not like mine. And so I think there, there’s a lot when it comes to opinions where that’s the positive side, the negative side being if you are operating from that place, if you are in a season of fear or insecurity of doubt, where you’re not maybe ready to receive, it can be really heavy, you can absolutely carry it I share. You know, stories were the early days of rising tide, we had this big Facebook group, and I’ll never forget, you know, we instituted some protocols around like what could be shared and not shared in the group and things as simple as no self promotion. It’s a rule, it’s there, you can read it, someone would self promote, it would get removed. And the messages that I would get and I wasn’t even moderating the group. I just do you know, the messages, I would get the hate, I would get paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs on paragraphs. And to that person than I actually think there’s a specific story in the book. I think I left it in there, gosh, I’m have to go back in left. I almost took it out. And I think I left it in there. There was a specific moment where somebody really went ran into me for their posts being removed, because it was for self promotion. And you know, again, it’s a rule. It’s, it is what it is. It’s the same for everyone in the group. They were really upset. And I remember those words. I remember what they said, I remember their profile picture at the time. Like it, it was like someone took like a brand, like like, literally branded piece of my soul. And I met them at an event recently, like two years ago. So it’s like years later. And they had no recollection of that being the last interaction that we had and we were chatting and chatting, chatting. And so then they go to message me something like on Facebook and they see the last conversation they had said to me Oh Oh, and then that. So all of that to say, like, you have to you have to realize, I think, you know, from all friends of this opinions are out there, everybody has one. And oftentimes, you know, the very things that we cling to other stone. Yes, the very things that we that and it applies, then we got to think about think about your on your worst day. Gosh, I mean, I think of us sometimes, like when I get mad, somebody cuts me off, and I’m driving on the highway, when my kids aren’t in the car, I might have a few choice words, right? That’s me, not at my best. Okay, I wouldn’t want that to be the only opinion that is carried forward, right. But we do that when it comes to other people, we carry this opinion forward. So especially when it comes to your business, like it really comes down to understanding the science of opinions and understanding that, you know, you there are going to be some that you carry with you. But again, it goes back to rewriting that story, like what can you pull from that in retrospect, or you can maybe write it, that person who said those very mean things to me, you know, like, they were having a really bad day. And it said more about them than it did about me. It’s more about what they were going through in that moment. And the way that it was positioned than it did about, you know, the rule about not promoting yourself, for example, it’s such as Pacific and simple example. But yeah, we struggle with it, we do
Akua Konadu
it. And I hate saying this, but it also like implies it and I know it’s it’s easier said than done. But it’s like just some things you just can’t take personal, right? You can’t. And even at times when you do try to come from a place of curiosity, try to ya know what I mean? Yes. Because why? Why are they behaving this way, right. And maybe you you won’t get the full resolution of what you’re wanting from the situation. But then you quickly realize that it’s no longer yours to carry. And you you leave it where it’s at, and you move on,
Natalie Franke
I love that. And curiosity is so critical. It’s about when you’re confronted with something really challenging, especially when it comes from somebody’s opinion, or criticism or doubt of you or critique of work you’re doing that we talked about being able to be curious, right? That requires you to have already done some of that inner work. Because if you’re showing up to the conversation from that place of, they don’t like me, because I’m not enough. This is proof this is evidence, all those fears I’ve had, this is proof, then you either wither and isolate, or you defy at all costs, and refuse to receive maybe the little bit of feedback that could have been really beneficial. And I think that inner work that precedes is, is just not sexy. We don’t like to talk about it. But it’s required, it’s required so that when you know somebody comes and says, Hey, you know, I didn’t have a great experience with your business. I really didn’t like my wedding photos. The design process was full of friction, I was not happy. You don’t immediately think, well, there, it’s them. It’s the client, the client, something’s wrong with the client. Because even we hear all the time. Why are these clients inquiring? That they can’t afford our prices? Why are they always undercutting us? And my question is, why do they feel like they can inquire with you in the first place? Because when you come from a place of I believe in my worth, and I but wait, they’re coming in the door? Let me evaluate? Am I putting my pricing out? Or am I being price secretive? Am I being transparent or secretive? Do I give benchmarks? Am I positioning my brands in a way that it is received by telling my story in a way that is received and understood that what I’m doing maybe as a boutique service, or maybe it’s the point being we’re so quick, sometimes when we’re coming from that place of fear, to blame the other, to shut them down that opinion down? And in business? You know, we do take it personally, because it’s a piece of our identity and our soul. Like I said, you’re doing that gutsy thing, you’re putting your heart into the world. So I think when you do that inner work, you’re able to then say, okay, if I’m getting clients come into the door every single day that are so far below my rates, maybe there’s something I can do to fix that. Maybe it’s not just them, right? Maybe it is me, maybe I can make those changes. But in doing that, that’s that growth, you know, that growth ability to be able to see an end it’s so important. And that’s that takes courage to Yeah, that takes courage to
Akua Konadu
1,000% I think those even coming from that place of curiosity and asking those questions is a huge difference whether you’ll make six figures, right like between 50,000 and 100,000 100,000 200,000. I mean, those questions and those can lead to those tweaks that can absolutely shift your future
Natalie Franke
because if you never change you’re never going to get to that next milestone. If you continue to shut down anything that doesn’t align with how you think the business needs to run. You’re not gonna last because again, while we talk about this all the time, the market tells you what they want. Your clients tell you what they want, your customers tell you what they want, but are you listening? And when it comes to the opinions of others, even when it’s opinions you don’t like are you listening? Yes, it is so important and in business knowing when to listen and what to listen to and how and we talked about as I was in the book, like even just crafting out, you know who who is an inner circle others And exercise never actually have you craft your inner circle, who are the opinions that you want, you know, in that inner circle and challenging you some of those should be from people who, you know, they’re not going to agree with you most of the time, but you trust them enough to have them in your inner circle, those types of right that is so important. If everybody agrees with you, that is not that’s an echo chamber. That’s not an opinion that that’s a straight, we don’t want that either. So crafting that inner circle and being really intentional that we walk you through how to do it, but it’s same applies in business, have that business circle, how those people that can look at your rebrand, look at your initiative, the launch that didn’t go well, that you can receive that feedback and know it’s coming from a place that they want you to win. They’re not trying to tear you down, they’re building you are building you up.
Akua Konadu
And it’s such a from a loving place to and I think even having that inner circle, even in times of struggle, I think about this story just popped into my head, you played a part in it, we didn’t really like we knew of each other. We’re like we knew each other, but we weren’t like friends. And it was at the imperfect boss camp, you gave your speech. And of course everybody’s sobbing. And at the camp, they had a wall where they have these little pockets, and everybody and I had every single participants name on the wall. And you could write notes to people that you just saw, were shining anything positive about people at the end of the camp, everything was full, every single person’s name was full with a whole bunch of notes. I literally was going through a hard time. And your note was in there and so many other people’s notes. And so even I’m having a hard time those words of encouragement that now like I now like, I feel like you are in my eyes like we’re already in each other’s circles. I’m like, Oh my gosh, it’s like comes back circle. I still read your note till this day of what you said to me. And every single person at that camp and I’m having a hard time, or I’m like really questioning what can I like? Am I doing the right thing? I don’t feel good enough. I don’t feel like I’m capable enough. I feel incompetent. I go back and look at those notes. Because people sometimes can see the things that you can’t see in yourself. And so what do I know to be true? And I go to that like, okay, like somebody I’m like, okay, yeah, I’m very funny. Well, yeah, but funny as business owner. It may not make me money that day, but um, money. You know, just stuff like that, where again, it’s just having that inner circle that it’s going to love on you. Yeah, hold you accountable, because they want the best for you. They want you to succeed in any way that you can. And so there’s just some opinions are very valuable, how they are friendly to take what you need. What you need, she always says that it does literally take away the need. It’s so true. So it’s so true. So this was, this was great. I love love loving this conversation. And so now that gutsy is launched, right? Yeah, it’s coming
Natalie Franke
out. I think this will I think we’re publishing this. Maybe we like within a week, within a week. It’s some of you almost all start getting a very soon because some of the indie stores like to ship it out early. Yeah. But yes, yeah. It’s it’s basically here,
Akua Konadu
it’s here. How are you feeling now that when it’s finally going to be in people’s hands, like terrified,
Natalie Franke
terrified, good, terrified, but terrified. I you know, even I wrote the introduction last. So whenever I write the, in the book process, you know, I think everyone kind of imagines what okay, what is an author’s experience, like, the actual process of writing it is for me isn’t very hard, editing it, and rereading what I wrote and still having the courage to leave it in there. That’s a different story. But I wrote the introduction. Last, I mean, in writing the introduction, I actually remember very vividly being like, I’m terrified, I’m terrified to publish this book. I’m, I’m scared to put this much of me out into the world. But, you know, it’s one of those things where we have to do the very things that scare us in order to live the life that we deserve to live. Nobody gets to the end of their life and goes you know, that that one time in my comfort zone? Never. Nobody, you know, and so it’s it’s about like this yes, I’m terrified to have this book out in the world. I, you know, this is it’s a spice It’s spicy, it is. It’s fiery people they’re gonna be parts of this book. I’m telling you self help authors are gonna come in for me in parts this book, because I call it out. I call stuff out and I’m, but it’s precisely what I needed to write. And I know without a doubt that some people are going to feel fired up enough to go after things that they’ve been putting off for a long time. Yes. And so I can’t wait. I’m also very excited, not just for this month of the books here. But I want to see a year from now. I want to see the people that read this book now, what they’re doing in their business, what they’re doing in their life, the things that they’ve spent years watching past them by watching other people chase after their dreams. Like this is going to be the moment that that changes. And so I’m pumped to watch that ripple effect happen. I think that’s the the flip side, the tear of the vulnerability paired with the excitement of the impact.
Akua Konadu
And I just love that just you being so transparent about how you feel because it’s a prime example of the fact that yes, I feel fear. Yeah, I’m terrified. I’m terrified for you to know the very intimate details of my life. I’m terrified because how this information is going to be received, but you’re still doing it anyways, you’re doing it scared doing it scary. And it’s just proof that okay, you don’t have it all figured out, none of us do know. And this is still a journey that you’re still figuring out that you’re still walking through. Yep. So you’re none of us are alone in that. Like when people I’m thinking, I think a lot of times, especially in the industry, we see entrepreneurs, right, they have these huge followings everything, but we forget that they’re also human, that they’re walking through the same journey that we’re walking through, and
Natalie Franke
they also have no idea what they’re doing.
Unknown Speaker
Seriously, exactly. I read, I read that in there, I
Natalie Franke
literally say I’m like, this is not so much a thesis in the perfection of the perfect way to be courageous. This is a recipe book that I have written through trial and error, and I am a terrible chef. And I just don’t want to set off the fire alarms when I’m cooking. Like that’s, that’s Welcome to gutsy. Yeah, you know, and in some ways we laugh because I’m like, I had we had a conversation, you know, in a recent episode that you might have listened to. And I don’t know if it’s gonna make the cut in there. But we were chatting. And my friend Kayla James was like, you know, I’ve never had an interview. I don’t even know how to do a resume. I don’t know, I don’t know anything. Welcome to my episode. And it feels a little like saying that. But then in the same breath, it’s like, but that’s the kind of radical honesty that we need to have, if we’re going to be gutsy. That’s the kind of radical honesty I wanted to bring to this book, not to show up and be like, if you want to be brave, follow these 10 steps and your life will be perfect. No, this is messy. This is hard. It is uncomfortable. And it is the type of work that no one’s going to pat you on the back for. But it’s the type of work that at the end of your life, you’re not going to be sitting there going, I wished I had lived that life. I wished I had gone after the things I wanted. I wished I had had the courage to do the very thing that other people told me I couldn’t do. That’s what I’m trying to fight for that at the end of your life, you are not having those regrets. Instead, you are sitting back and you are so proud, both of the successes and the failures, because you were brave enough to go after it.
Akua Konadu
You deserve success like the next person. So I just love hearing that about Kaitlyn too. But we all we all feel that way. Yeah, we do. We really, really do. And so this conversation has been wonderful.
Natalie Franke
Thank you for having it with me. I’m I’m so honored. This was just so great. This was great. I
Akua Konadu
just y’all please get gutsy. Okay, because this book will truly change your life in more ways than one, not just business, but everything outside of that you as a person. Because we do we deserve to have a life that we’d love. We deserve to be free and who we are, who we are meant to be. And we deserve to have all the good things and do good. So thank you so much for having me interview you. This was a great.
Natalie Franke
One more fun thing. I’ll say, you know, if you are gonna grab the book, and you want a signed copy of the book, I’m doing something really special with independent bookstore. I mean, no surprise there. But with independent bookstores exclusively. If you head over to my website, Natalie free.com/gutsy, you’ll see the button that says get a signed copy, click on that. We’re partnering with independent bookstores to support them. Because this is a really important moment to be fighting for other small businesses as we know. And exclusively you can get signed copies through these indie stores. It’s my way of helping to drive some sales their way. So if you haven’t picked it up yet, and you’re going to let’s say you have to grab it from an indie but I am saying on the independent business podcast, we wanted to make that as easy as possible. But thank you so much for this combo and having me interviewing me on the path. I wanted to
Akua Konadu
be like, thanks for coming on. I’m like it’s her podcast. So thanks for having me to come hang out with you. It’s so fun. Thank you.
Natalie Franke
That ends our episode of The Independent Business Podcast. Everything that we’ve discussed today can be [email protected]. Head to our website for access to show notes, relevant links and all of the resources that you need to level up. And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so that you never miss our future content. Drop us a review and leave our guests some love on social. Thanks again for listening
