Natalie Franke
My guest today Jeffrey Shaw started his self employment lifetime career at the age of 14 years old, selling eggs door to door. He then created a highly successful portrait photography business and has images that hang in the halls of Harvard have been featured on Oprah. You name it, his photographs have been everywhere and made a tremendous impact. In more recent years. He’s an author, a podcast host, a TEDx speaker, and a coach empowering self employed individuals to truly build profitable businesses and pursue their dreams. In this conversation, we are talking all about the monster that keeps many of us from going after what we want self doubt. And when I tell you this conversation really, really left me feeling like a student because I myself struggle with this. And I felt very comforted to learn that so many others do too. You’re going to want to pop those headphones in, dig into this episode, and allow it to be the soundtrack that gets you out of the spiral of self doubt, and into moving forward in your life and your business. Let’s get into the episode. Hey, everyone, this is your host, Natalie Frank, and you’re listening to the independent business podcast, more people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process. So on this show, I sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs and creators to break down the science of self made success so that you can achieve victory.
Natalie Franke
Jeffrey, thank you so much for joining me on the show.
Jeffrey Shaw
I’m so excited to talk to you anytime, especially today,
Natalie Franke
I had the opportunity to be a guest on your podcast very recently. And after we hopped off that conversation, that interview, we deep dive into a subject that we’re going to be talking about today on the independent business podcast, which is self doubt. And I am so excited to dive into this because as someone that has run businesses myself, it doesn’t matter. You know how many years I do this, I myself, I feel like I’m the student here. I’m really truly I know, I’m the host today, but I’m the student here. self doubt always creeps in and I want to just dive right into it. Why is self doubt something that independent business owners that, you know, self employed individuals struggle with? Why are we dealing with them?
Jeffrey Shaw
Well, I love the fact that you’re reminding me how we got into the conversation in the first place, which actually is a metaphor for the problem, right? Because it’s sort of like the after cocktails conversation, like you and I had a great conversation, because that’s what we business owners do. We’re always doing business, we’re always talking about the big ideas, we’re always talking about what we’re moving forward. And then secretly behind the scenes, we’re dealing with self doubt, we’re dealing with other things that hold us back. And it was literally represented in our conversation we had in a dynamic business conversation, and then we had the real conversation about what it’s like to be in the trenches as a business owner. So, you know, here’s the key to, to my damage. This, by the way, is the subject of my third book won’t be out till spring 2025. So I love that out of this conversation, like while I’m writing it and doing the research, but this book is being written specifically for high achievers. And that is an important thing to understand. Because there’s this weird thing that happens when you are someone who is a high achiever, you’re independent business owners, people are trying to do the big things. There is a an absolute correlation to how big and bold your living life and how much dust you’re stirring up, and how much you’re going to deal with some of the internal challenges if you are a person who is inclined to punch the clock or lay on your couch. Nothing wrong with it, but you’re not as inclined to hit some of these issues that we face. And that’s what intrigued me whether it’s impostor syndrome and self doubt and self criticism, all these things. I’ve always said being in business for ourselves is like personal development on steroids. Right? Because we experience everything faster, harder, deeper, we get, you know, our personal growth is accelerated. But that’s why I’m writing this book specifically for high achievers who are probably even somewhat surprised that they’re still dealing with self doubt. But in fact, it’s actually increased.
Natalie Franke
Yes, okay, wait, let’s dive into the increase. Because one thing I’m really curious about is whether self doubt goes away. As you grow in your career as you build your business and you start expanding and having success or whether it gets worse. What have you started to uncover there? Absolutely.
Jeffrey Shaw
I hate to use the word worse, right? Does it get worse? Does it get more frequent? Does it become more prevalent? I don’t know what word want to use there to kind of smoother but it absolutely is a bigger obstacle. And here’s why. And my research is already showing this that when asked, and I have a I have a survey which we can share with your listeners, but we have I’m doing a survey because I really am doing research, scientific research. But here’s the thing, Natalie, there is almost no research on the negative impact of self doubt. There’s a lot of research on the quote unquote, positive impacts of self doubt. Correct. There are books written about, you know, the wonderful parts of self doubt. Well, you know what, for those of us that are independent business owners living life in the trenches and doing our, I don’t think we see anything positive of self doubt. It just sucks. And let’s call it what it is. So I used to get irritated by people saying, well, here’s the positive side of self doubt. I’m like, yeah, no, that’s not helping me. It’s sort of like being sick. I would say it’s kind of like being single. And people say you’re, you’re a great person, your your person just hasn’t come along yet. Like, Yeah, no kidding. But that’s not helping me now, you know. So I think it shows up more frequently, because then we’re out there doing more the reason it, the recent, my research is showing, and this one, the biggest amount of research is coming from the survey that I’m circulating, because I wanted the research from in the trenches, the real, not the scientific, brain, you know, type of research, I wanted real people research. When asked one of the questions on the on the survey is when do you experience self doubt more? Is it when you’re doing something for the first time? Or is it when you’ve done something before, but the bar has been raised. And by and large, the response is, when I’ve done something before, now the bar has been raised. This is why high achievers, this can often start facing more self doubt. Because once you’ve achieved any level of success, you may doubt whether you can achieve it again, you may doubt whether you can sustain your reputation. But all these things start coming in once you’ve once you’ve raised the bar, your own expectation, that’s the other part of the surveys asked, Where are those expectations coming from? Are they coming from other people or yourself which expectations have more impact? And by and large people are saying the expectations I hold for myself within? Okay, so it’s this what’s going on? Right? So you have people who are achieving things and as they’re achieving things, they’re wondering if they can sustain it, can they can they exceed it? So every time they do something now it self doubt is introduced? And that’s why it’s it’s it’s perpetuating, I mean this, I think there’s really something to the old phrase, it’s lonely at the top. There’s so much that goes on. Because as you’ve achieved, you also feel like this is one of the other questions in the survey, does your does your reputation cause you to cause you to feel more expectations? Right? And that’s when you start experiencing it on your own? Because if you’re if you are feeling self doubt in protection of your reputation, you’re not likely to share that with other people that you’re feeling this way.
Natalie Franke
Wow, it’s almost like success. Isn’t the anecdote, success? Isn’t the cure to self doubt. No, it just shifts the way in which you’re coming across it in your daily life is really what it sounds like. And I have to imagine, and I’m curious if you’ve experienced this firsthand in the work that you do, but it’s you know, as we think about once you have that success, once you start to achieve once you experience growth in your business in your career, you become exposed to just how many other people are out there doing great things with the just sheer amount of content that we consume on any given day observing and kind of absorbing the successes of others as well, right? Like, it’s not even our own ability to achieve. It’s the fact that as an independent business owner, you’re just exposed to all of the other highlight reels happening all around you. I only I have to imagine that makes this entire experience all the more difficult, right? Like, it’s one thing to be experiencing self doubt, because you’re just aware of, Wow, well, I’ve had this success, am I ever going to have it again? Or oh, I’ve built this reputation. If anything goes wrong, it’s going to damage it. And right, like, it’s like a giant, and I see this person and this person and this person, and they are all achieving, as well. They’re all having this success, as well. Have you felt that pressure 100%.
Jeffrey Shaw
And you know, there’s actually science behind that. So it’s called Brain priming. And I love brain priming as a tool because it can work for you. It can work against you and the way I help my clients and my students use it for them is that idea of brain priming, is that you are more likely to recognize what you already know. Okay, so if you prime your brain, right, and you can look at this, most broadly like to me it’s the root of manifest nation, right, we can make manifest, we can talk about manifestation as woowoo as we want. The fact of matter is, the reason it works is because if you decide and hold in your brain, the result you want, you’re far more likely to recognize it. Right? That’s brain priming. Now as a marketer and business, we can use that in the way that we market ourselves, that’s the whole goal behind marketing is to prime the brains of our potential customers to recognize us. But that same science is what’s going on and what you’re describing like, and I’m sure with your clients, you’ve had a similar idea where it’s almost predictable. My clients when working with them, they, you know, they have an idea, they have an area of expertise, they have a brand message that they they’ve crafted they think is so unique. And within two weeks, they’ll contact me and say, oh, so and so is doing the exact same thing. And as if they can’t step into that space. And I’m like, the this is Brain priming at its word. Now that you’ve introduced your brain, you’re going to start seeing that same topic everywhere, it’s actually always been there, there’s still room in that area of expertise for you as well, you’re just seeing more of it. And this is what happens with that comparison trap. Right? When you achieve success, you start hanging around with people that are likely also successful, you start noticing other people’s success more, and it starts messing with your brain. And next thing, you know, you’re falling into a comparison trap at a more frequent rate, which is increasing the self doubt. It’s a cycle.
Natalie Franke
So how do we break it? What what do we do because this is something I struggle with. And I mean, I’ve talked about it pretty openly, but comparison just feels like this, you know, monster that just continues to pop up when you least expect it when you’re having an off day when you’re feeling insecure. When you know something doesn’t go your way. There it is. It’s like hiding in the shadows ready to jump out? And I’d love to know, like, what can we do to start to break that cycle? What have you found to be helpful in either, you know, kind of combating the comparison, we’ve talked about brain priming, you’re speaking my language, you know, or even just starting to address the self doubt that maybe we’re feeling day to day.
Jeffrey Shaw
So gosh, we can help try to answer that in two different ways. One is kind of more broadly about why I’m writing the book in the first place. So I work with my editors. So fantastic. She She we’ve worked for months on an outline of a book before even start, and she’s forces me always to create a readers promise, like what’s the promise for the reader that you’re going to hold throughout the entire reading the book you’re going to hold to be true, and the person finishes it. And my my reader promise is that, by having this conversation, self doubt can lose its power, I’m not going to promise that we’re going to make self doubt go away, you know, it’s never going to go away. I do believe we can manage it. But what happens is when when something when when something gets light shed on it, it loses its power in a lot of ways. Brene Brown did this beautifully with vulnerability, right? She created the conversation on a big scale about vulnerability, to the point where not that not only did it lose its negative power people, she accomplished what she set out to do, which was to have people see vulnerability as their strength. So what I’m trying to accomplish with this book by having this conversation by starting the conversation around self doubt that for so many people have been having behind the scenes, it’s a kind of going out of their own internal world. I want to I want to start the conversation, I want people to be having a converse, I want independent business owners to be talking to each other about the self doubt that they’re encountering. And by having the conversation, it’s going to lose his power, which is going to enable you to manage it better, it’s not going to go away. Now the number one way that I’m finding to manage it, which answers your more specific question, the comparison trap or any other time. What I’m finding in my research and I will say is true. My own personal experience is remind yourself of who you are. I mean, it is amazing. If you actually pay attention to when you’re experiencing self doubt as it’s as if you have a major case of amnesia and you forget everything you’ve ever accomplished before you forget about all the levels of confidence you’ve ever had. You forget about all the things even if you’re doing something new, you forget about the thing, other bold things that you did. It’s amazing what we completely forget what we’ve accomplished, and what we’re capable of and who we are because we’re damn cool by being independent business owners of the first place. And somehow all that at a moments of self doubt where they seem people seem to seem to detach from who they are. So number one thing to manage it is to remind reconnect with who you are, what makes you who you are, what makes you what makes you tick, what you’ve accomplished. And kind of hand in hand to that but also a really self helpful tool is to pay attention to how other people see you. And what’s really interesting about this, Natalie is I did this is the topic of my TEDx talk in 2018. Long before I had an idea, it just I had this idea when I was crafting my TEDx talk about something I wanted to talk about, unrelated to my professional work, unrelated to my books. And it was this idea that I had come to observe, honestly, by watching award shows, particularly the Tony Awards. Like, I really started noticing that when, when people were receiving accolades and awards, they would often thank other people for seeing more than then they saw on themselves. And particularly the Tony Awards, because of the Broadway theater community is so tight, that they would often thank their peers, they’re not a very, they’re the Broadway community is not a real competitive community. They’re very supportive of one another. So they would thank each other I started realizing, isn’t it interesting that so often other people see more on us than we see in ourselves. So the other way to reconnect with yourself and to, to manage self doubt, is to listen to how other people see you.
Natalie Franke
What’s so incredible about that is there’s actually a story in my book, gutsy, where I talk about, you know, the months after my daughter Harlow was born, and I was in, and I’m gonna be really honest with you, in the depths of probably one of the deepest depressions I’ve experienced postpartum was really rough the second time around for me, and I actually write a story in the book about a particular day where I was really struggling, and my husband came up to me, and I will never forget, you know, he, like lovingly kind of wrapped his arms around me and he said, remember who the hell you are. And it just like, kind of like, I was like, what, and he, you know, didn’t stop there. But he was like, remember who you are, like, remember what you’ve overcome. Remember what you are capable of, like, just having that moment. And as you were talking, I just, I kept going back to that point where I needed both I needed somebody in my life, who saw me for who I truly am in a moment where I couldn’t see it myself, somebody in my life who loved me, and who was willing to fight for me, even when I couldn’t fight for myself, and also somebody that was willing to say to me, like, remember, remember who you are. And I think you know, it’s so beautiful and so powerful. That simple statement of just, you know, don’t forget who you are. Don’t forget, you know what, what you’ve you’ve had to overcome to get to where you are today, don’t forget what you’ve walked through the risks, you’ve taken the leaps of faith, right? The the hope that you’ve had for your own life and your own future, in those moments, where maybe you’re struggling for one reason or another, it can be so easy to lose sight of that. And I love I absolutely love, you know, the encouragement to everyone around also asking others like how they see you. I remember when I did a rebranding exercise several years ago, the individual helping me with the process said, you know, to actually reach out to three people who know you and love you, and ask them, you know, what is it that you love about me? What are what do you think my superpower is? are, you know, just just simply asking that question, and I’ll never forget getting these responses back and just feeling sort of like, Wait, that’s how they see me. You know, that’s, that’s what they think about me. And that the way that your chest kind of swells. And, you know, you sit up a little bit taller. And I absolutely love that. I’m curious, you know, as as your career has grown, and you know, you you’ve had success, you’ve written books, you’ve spoken on stages in front of hundreds 1000s of people, you know, is there anything for you in the moment, like if you’re in a moment where the pressure feels intense, where the stakes are high? And the self doubt comes creeping in, when it really shouldn’t? Have you found any techniques like in the moment to kind of center yourself or get back to that healthy baseline? Is it affirmations? Is it a mantra? Is it meditation? Is it calling a friend phoning him in like, you know, help helpline? One 800. I need? What has worked well for you? Is there anything kind of tactical for those of us who may experience that self doubt creep in in a moment where it’s really crucial for us to continue with forward progress? I
Jeffrey Shaw
think the I’m a big proponent of particularly for independent business owners, I’m a real big proponent for having a baseline of consistency in your life through some sort of daily habits, right. Whether it’s meditation or walk, journaling, you know, we have to have some kind of baseline of consistency of our own groundedness because the world we’re living in is so chaotic as business owners, right it’s we’re things are coming in all different directions. We’re wearing all the hats. A car enemies changed. And now we know pandemics can come along. I’m like, you know, it’s just, it’s a crazy, crazy world we have chosen to live in and we want to thrive. And so step one is over the long term is to have a baseline of consistency in your mindsets, so that you have something to Oh, you have a way of grounding yourself. But in the heated moment, and the way you’re asking the question is reminding me of, you know, what does it feel like to either walk out on stage when it’s an intimidating audience? Or what does it you know, when you have those moments, those crisis moments of self doubt, again, you could say that leading up to that moment, affirmations and all those wonderful sweet things are great. But in the crisis moment, I recommend having in your back pocket a shutdown phrase. And that’s exactly what I call it. And that’s how I teach it to my students that my self employed businesses do, we talk I teach them have a shutdown phrase, because it’s going to come in that voice of self doubt is going to come in, and just tell it to sit down and shut up. Like, whatever it is that you need, I’ve got this, like, whatever, you know, but there’s a difference between an affirmation and a shutdown phrase. And in the crisis, moment of self doubt, be prepared with a shutdown phrase, and mine literally is shut, sit down and shut up. Like, I just know that that person just needs to that that critic just needs to sit down. Alright, so that’s what I kind of recommend that and you know, combined with again, that that, to me, is the crisis moment. The other thing is, and I think, particularly for service based businesses, just remind yourself who you’re serving. That’s how I handle that’s how I handle stage fright, by the way, and I still get very nervous before every speaking gig, the way I calm down the self doubt, and the nervousness is to just know I am there in service of the people who showed up. And I just tell them, and I literally go through this thing in my head, no matter what happens, if I fall off the stage, if I found out afterwards that my hair was all messed up, whatever it is, keep going because I’m in service to the audience. And that when you are a service based business owner, when you’re driven by your, your purpose, and really wanting to make an impact, again, reminding yourself of that is what can get you back on track and actually feel like I don’t care what happens to me, this is not about me, even though I’m the one on stage spotlights on me, this isn’t about me, it’s about the people I’m here in service for. And then I mean a little I’ve had everything that can go wrong, go wrong on a stage, I have fallen off stages, I have had mics go out, I have had slides go out. But with the mindset, like just keep going, no matter what happens, you’re in service, you just let those things roll. And you keep going. So I think whether it’s entering to the stage of speaking or the stage of the world, because you are a business owner, just really reminding yourself reconnecting yourself back to who you’re in service of will help kind of squelch those moments of self doubt as well. It’s like, it’s like, you’re just taking the spotlight off yourself.
Natalie Franke
I love that visual, it’s 100%, it’s taking that spotlight from you to who you’re serving. And by doing that, it becomes less about me and more about we and the impact you can make on others 100% Spot on, it’s so spot on. And I feel like that’s so applicable in any capacity as an independent, whether you’re sitting down with a client for a call, and you’re feeling really anxious, or you’re getting ready to post a piece of content, and you’re nervous about how people are going to react to it again, getting back to the root of who are you serving? And how are you showing up to make that impact? That is so powerful. I also want to know, you know, when it comes to self doubt, what I’ve uncovered, and I feel like I’m so curious if this has come up as well for you. But in working with small business owners and independents, I hear all the time that you know, the folks they maybe expect to be the first to support them the first to, you know, cheer for them root for them, when they do something like leave a job and start a business or pick up a side hustle or, you know, scale and launch something new. A lot of the time those people they would have expected to be the loudest in their corner, are either the first to project their own self doubts and fears onto them. Right? Or they stay particularly quiet. I’m really curious, if you have any words of encouragement for, you know, the independent, who is maybe looking for that support looking, you know, to their partner or their best friend to, you know, be there to root for them when their self doubt self doubt creeps in. But perhaps some of those folks are not doing that. Or maybe they’re, you know, not really sure how to support do you have any advice there?
Jeffrey Shaw
It pains me to even hear that, you know, I mean, it’s a painful experience when the people that you think are going to be your advocates turn out to be you’re not showing up that way. So I think the way I would handle that, interestingly enough, I love that you’re asked me this, I’ve never really thought about it. And thankfully that wasn’t so much my experience or actually it probably was to some degree, but I just I’m somebody who just like play I was through things. So I don’t tend to, you know, pay a lot of attention to what other people might be thinking. But what my suggestion would be similar to, I actually refer to this as a decision making process. And I think it applies here as well. Because, you know, as a business coach, people reaching out to work with me, I’m often helping them how to make a decision whether to move forward with me or with somebody else, or how they want to transform their life. And as I started, sort of study the breakdown of the science of how to make a decision. And it’s, it’s, I think it’d be a very helpful way to also manage when people don’t seem to be in agreement with a decision you’ve made. And it’s what I refer to is just understanding that when you’re making a big decision, or moving forward with the decision and seeing confrontation, there are three voices that are speaking to you, the voice of intuition, the voice of fear, and the voice of reason. And they each have an important role. But they operate in different ways, right? So the voice of intuition is by far the quietest, and really the only one to be trusted. Right? Your voice of intuition is you tapping into back tapping into you again, right? It’s really your voice of intuition. Intuition is reconnecting to yourself. That’s, that is likely to be your greatest advocate against self doubt. Because you, you have a gut instinct, and an intuition that you’re doing the right thing. The voice of reason, plays an important role, but is completely manipulated. Like, you know, the voice of reason is the voice that tells you you shouldn’t make that purchase. And then you talk it out of that, because your emotions are driven so much that you want that thing and you buy it anyway. Right. So like my partner right now, my husband, the voice of reason is very easily manipulated, so not very trustworthy. And of course, the voice of fear is the loudest. Yeah, but the problem is the voice of fear. All its information comes from past information. So those people that you expect to be your advocates, they’re speaking from their voice of fear on your behalf, on behalf of care for you and love for you. So they’re expressing their it’s their voice of fear the speaking the loudest. And that that I think is it’s really coming from love and support and concern and probably their own elevated voice of fear, because they wouldn’t have the bravery to do what you’re about to do. Right. So I think if you just recognize that, again, the more you can shed light on something, the more it loses its power. And if anyone who has that experience, just shine the light on to say, this is what’s going on, this person is speaking from their voice of fear. Thank you for that. And then trust your own intuition as to where you want to go with that.
Natalie Franke
Wow, I love that. One place where self doubt creeps in a lot. Is around pricing. Pricing yourself raising your prices charging for doing any I mean, it is I can’t tell you how many times I see and hear conversations around pricing and around insecurities around pricing and the self doubt of am I really worth this amount? How right? Where do we begin to address that? Is there anything you’ve seen really help you know, whether it’s your your clients that you’re working with? Or in your own journey around? You know, navigating the insecurities that creep up when it comes to pricing ourselves for the incredible work that we do?
Jeffrey Shaw
Yep. Oh my gosh, you know, being a business owner is full of so many ironies and paradoxes. And it’s amazing. This is one of them, right? So there’s an absolute correlation I’m finding between self doubt and self worth. So how we determine our worth is to the dude proportionate to how much we allow doubt to creep in about what we should price. I’ll give you an example of my own life. So as a my original career, as I refer to it today, was as a portrait photographer, for very affluent families started I was 20 years old. I still I was just in Miami doing a shoot I’ll do like three shoots this year for people I just can’t say no to yet. But for the past 16 years, I’ve been doing a lot less because that’s when I introduced coaching and writing books, etc. As a photographer, even in my 20s, serving a clientele that was very affluent, I didn’t come from money. So this was brand new to me. I had no problem charging an exorbitant amount of money for what I was creating compared to other photographers. I just saw what I was creating as a photographer of having a huge value because there were going to be portraits that preserved moments in life and were handed down for generations, which is why I had to work with an affluent clientele because affluent people have the means to to not just pay for a luxury item but to pay for things that you know for the future where if you’re financially strapped, you’re, you’re paying for what is in that moment. Alright, so that’s how I ended up with that market because I realized, okay, I needed to work with people who have the discretionary income to pay for beautiful portraits that they’re Children will enjoy in the future. So for whatever reason, I had no problem charging, I saw a huge amount of value in what I was creating, I felt a sense of worth, I always say maybe a little bit because it was a cocky, 20 something year old, but I had a high sense of worth, and I charge a lot of money. I have found it for myself so much more challenging to do that, as a coach, so much more challenging to do it in the areas of my life now. And I believe this is the reason why and this is how self doubt connects the self worth actually called the souls gatekeepers, like I’ve had to give it a name. Because the more you step into being closer to your most purposeful work, whether it is something you got clear on in your 20s, or like many of us, you know, you had various iterations to your career, maybe you were in corporate for 30 years, and at 55 years old, you’re becoming a business owner, you’re stepping into something that is far more purpose driven, far more driven by wanting to make a difference in the world. And when you step into that arena, suddenly the souls gatekeepers show up and the souls gatekeepers are the voice of self doubt, and of imposter syndrome, the things show up that just challenge you, as to, it’s almost as if we’re not supposed to figure out our soul, right, because the closer you get to it, the more defensive it gets. So I think there’s a direct correlation to doing your most significant work in the world. And being challenged and having a challenge your worth and introducing self doubt. So all you can do with that, is see that, that cycle, that anxiety as a sign that you’re doing something really impactful. Right, it’s sort of like I said, on a podcast interview a while back how overwhelm is often a sign that you’re ready for your next level of success. And have come to that conclusion. Because at any point of a high achievers life, you and all your listeners, if you actually look back at whatever point you’re at, now, when you feel overwhelmed, if you look back, and again, reconnect to your past, if you look back, it’s very likely that a moment that overwhelmed you a few years ago, today is a blip on the radar for you. Which means a few years, so now what’s overwhelming, you now is going to be a blip on the radar then, which is why moments of being overwhelmed are actually an indicator that you’re ready for a greater capacity. And you’ll rise to that capacity and you’ll look back at this moment of being overwhelmed and think that’s nothing compared to what’s going on now. And so overwhelm is actually I think, a sign of these constant iterations that we are able to handle more in which is why we step into more and I think it’s sort of the same thing when it comes to to attaching worth to your self doubt. Right when it shows up. It’s a sign that you’re doing your most purposeful work and that you should be charging the highest amount for it.
Natalie Franke
Wow. Oh, wow. I mean, when you throw a mic drop out there like that i i It’s It’s so spot on and you know, I do I think there’s something to be said for as you get closer to that purposeful work. The self doubt Yes, it creeps in even more the concerns you have around how to price it feel even more personal and painful. And should somebody you know, for example, an external voice say oh, it’s not worth that. It feels like you’re being stabbed, right? Like in the soul. Those sorts of things. i Wow, wow. Oh, wow.
Jeffrey Shaw
We don’t get wrapped up a lot in this is imposter syndrome. Right? It’s been amazing to me as quickly. As I mentioned, I’m writing a book about self doubt people say something about impostor syndrome. Oh, me and crazy and I get the connection. But you know what, Natalie, for me, those two things are worlds apart. And I understand why people class but here’s why they’re and this is why I’m tackling self doubt. And not impostor syndrome. impostor syndrome is painful, I get it. But I don’t think it’s nearly as painful or as challenging as self doubt, because with impostor syndrome, we’re often worrying about other people, finding out that we might not be who they think we are. But with self doubt. We’re worried about finding out that we’re not who we think we are. And that hurts. That’s why I’m addressing the topic of self doubt. I get the comparison imposter syndrome. I just think imposter syndrome has become this term that everybody’s throwing into the big bucket of imposter syndrome. And it’s almost like it’s become a fashionable badge to wear. So, where I’m looking at what is really holding high achievers back, and I’m looking at this issue of self doubt, I’m looking at what are the consequences of it? We addressed this on the survey, like what does it do in the most likely thing is this again, this is why I’m writing this book for high achievers. High achievers are going to move forward anyway. But the problem is the self doubt has two negative consequences. One is the cause for the pause, it slows people down. In the book, I plan on interviewing some Olympic level athletes about timing. Right, and one of the one of my aspirations, I haven’t found this person yet, but I’m looking for a high diver. Now imagine you have a high diver standing on the end of a platform about to plunge who knows how many feet into the waters spinning in the air? Your timing can’t be off a fraction of a second, right? How do you not let even the slightest moment of self doubt into your brain? I want to I want to unpack that. I want to understand what is going on in their brain that they don’t allow even a fraction of self doubt command because if that throws off your timing, it could be life threatening. Alright, so one of the biggest consequences of self doubt is the pause that it causes, right? What opportunities might you have missed? What what speed at which you are moving forward when you slow down and you and somebody else ran ahead of you? Right. And then the other is, which I think is a more prevalent problem is that so often people end up being 80%. And they’re not 100%. And when they’re when they’re experiencing self doubt, they’re dipping their toes in the water instead of diving in full force. And I think a lot of people sit in this constant cycle of self doubt. They’re putting their all in at 80%. But they’re not in at 100%. And I think with better management of self doubt, I think we can overcome that.
Natalie Franke
Wow, this has been so incredible. And once you get that interview with that high diver or any Olympic level athlete for your book, we’re gonna have to have you come back on the show and dig into because I need to know, I need to know how they do it. I always close out my episodes, Jeffrey with one final question. And it is this and there’s there’s no right or wrong answer. But I’m always intrigued to know what your perspective or take on it is. Jeffrey, what do you believe, differentiates the businesses that succeed from the ones that fail?
Jeffrey Shaw
Oh, my gosh, persistence, resiliency, I mean, I, in my own life, I will always say I’ve never been the first one out of the gate. But I’m almost always the last one standing. Right. I mean, I have had in very my various careers. On a say right now, as a speaker, I’ll use that as an example like I have yet to really grab at the level of being a professional speaker at the level that I think I’m capable of, or that I’m shooting for. And I’m going through like my next iteration of platform and how I’m building that, which I think is going to be the breakthrough. And I will reflect back and say, Boy, I saw the years of not quite getting it. But in the end, I’m going to be going to be one of the last ones standing like I’ll get the recognition. And so the only way you achieve that is its persistence and resiliency. Just keep going be the last one standing will serve. Many business owners very well
Natalie Franke
be the last one standing Jeffrey, I have no doubt that our listeners are going to want to learn more about you take the survey you’ve mentioned, check out the books you have published and get excited for your next one. Where can our listeners do that?
Jeffrey Shaw
Yeah, I would love for your listeners to take the survey because this gives them an opportunity. And there’s going to be a handful of peep of survey takers that we’re going to do further interviews with, so you could end up in the book. But again, I want the research from in the trenches, and your people are so in the trenches, and I love them. And I really would love them to take the survey, just go to self doubt. survey.com. So self doubt survey.com It can take a few minutes or it’s and people have said it’s very therapeutic. Because if you know you It asks a lot of probing questions, you don’t have to answer them all answer what you choose to, because some of them will require some thought, but it’s a good way to actually get get the conversation going within yourself about self doubt. So self doubt survey.com. And then my website is Jeffrey shaw.com. And they can find the books and everything else. They’re
Natalie Franke
amazing. And we will link all of that in the show notes. Jeffrey, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Jeffrey Shaw
Thank you so much for having me.
Natalie Franke
That ends our episode of The Independent Business Podcast. Everything that we’ve discussed today can be [email protected]. Head to our website for access to show notes, relevant links and all of the resources that you need to level up. And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast so that you never miss our future content. Drop us a review and leave our guests some love on social. Thanks again for listening.
