Reach your ideal clients and generate revenue with creative collaborations

Akua: If you have been thinking of new ways to collaborate with other independent business owners, then this episode is for you. Danielle Wiebe, who is a community builder, collaboration expert, and business strategist joins us on the show to talk about how we can use creative collaborations and partnership strategies to reach our ideal clients.

Danielle gives us so many tangible tips on the different ways business owners can collaborate, how to cold pitch potential collaborators, and how to move forward if a collaboration doesn’t work out. You’re going to walk away with new and innovative ways to collaborate with other business owners to help generate revenue in your business.

Now let’s get into the episode. Hey everyone. This is your host Akua Konadu and you’re listening to the independent business podcast. More people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process. So on this show, I get to sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs, and creators to break down the science of self made success so that you can achieve it too.

Hello, Danielle. How are you? I’m great. How are you? Great. So excited to have you here. I’m just so excited for us to talk more just about collaborating. I think, you know, the term collaboration has just changed so much over the past few years. And so especially with like the pandemic and now, and so I’m really interested to know more about you, what you do and just how business owners can be more strategic with our collaboration.

So thank you for being here. 

Danielle: Thank you so much for having me. I’m honored. I can’t wait to dive into this topic because I am so, so obsessed with anything collaboration. So I can’t wait. 

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, you know, we hear the term a lot, like creative collaboration, but we hear this term, we say we, like, I think many of us love the idea, but what do you determine like creative collaboration is?

Danielle: Yeah, it’s such a good question because I think the term collaboration is so broad. There’s like so many different ways that you can collaborate. And so, you know, the, the, the way that I always describe it, it’s creating something that didn’t exist before with a, with either one or two or more other people, other entrepreneurs or other individuals, and creating something of value that would not have existed if it was Just you creating that thing.

So bringing together other people with different backgrounds different skill sets different Audiences and kind of coming together and bringing our expertise together to create something beautiful Collaboratively. 

Akua: Yeah, I love that. I think that’s just such like a beautiful way to put it of you know How are you bringing value?

How can you put something together that can truly make an impact? And I think that was just like a nice and perfect way to to sum it up. And so you are, is it like, what is it? Business collaboration strategist. Number one, I’m so curious into how you fell into that. Please share. Oh my goodness. Okay. So 

Danielle: I’ll just kind of share a little bit of a backstory of where kind of how my business came to be, because I think that will hopefully explain why I do what I do.

So back in 2013, 14 right before I kind of launched this business. At that time, I was doing a lot of different things. I had a couple of my own businesses. I was also working for, um, different brands kind of, I was always doing contract work. I never really had like a traditional sort of nine to five job.

I was always doing contract. And so at that time I was really interested in networking and networking. you know, connecting with other freelancers, entrepreneurs, things like that. And so in my city, I live in Vancouver, Canada. And so at that time, there wasn’t really much going on for young entrepreneurs who wanted to connect and collaborate and learn from each other.

And so, um, I decided to host my first pop up event. And so with that, I was like, well, I don’t really have any connections other than the people I’ve met. And so I, Just pulled from the network that I did have the very small network that I did have, and I had met someone at an event who was a caterer. I met someone in an event who had like a product based business.

And so basically I said, like, Hey, I want to host this pop up event. Would you want to be a part of this? And why don’t we each invite like Two people to come to this and we’ll kind of see where it goes. And so that was the first event. I think we had, you know, eight or 10 people. And then after that event, you know, I had the question, well, when’s the next one?

Like, okay, I guess I’m, I’m going to host another one. So it just was like the snowball effect from there. And through that period, I mean, that was, um, about nine years ago now through that kind of evolution of like where the business is today. And there’s been so much that’s happened since then is, you know, I really understood this idea of we are so much better together.

I know it sounds cheesy to say that, but collaboration really was like the thing that propelled my businesses forward was working with other people, collaborating with other entrepreneurs, other individuals who had complimentary skill sets that could support me. And I think as well, when you are a business owner, especially when you’re first getting started and you don’t have a team, you don’t have anyone working with you, you know, you are often, you know, working in your PJs at home and you’re going off of your own skill sets, your own, um, ideas.

And so when we come together and collaborate with each other, there’s just so much beauty and magic that happens with that. And so I just became obsessed with this concept. And so I brought it into everything that I did. And then I started to talk to people and realizing that it wasn’t necessarily, you know, Everyone’s, um, kind of natural state was how can I connect and collaborate and work with other people in a way where everyone wins?

Maybe people thought of that, but they weren’t really sure how to go about it. Or maybe they had, um, challenging situations that would come up and they’re like, okay, I’m not working with, you know, other business owners again because I had this one bad experience. Or they would go in with. What’s in it for me instead of what’s in it for everyone.

And so that really allowed me to like, realize that this needs to be talked about. And I think that we need to talk about how we can collaborate in a way that is beneficial for everyone. Not only just the people that are collaborating, but also the communities that are being impacted by these collaborations.

Akua: I love that so much because I think, you know, Just even to your earlier question, like when we always say collaborate, I think I know for me with my experience, like I always collaborate with business owners, whether you know what I mean in supporting our businesses, like kind of do like peer mastermind stuff like that, which has been really, really fun and has been been really helpful.

I also do think, though, that Many of us can be a lot more strategic in our collaborations, not with who, but specific, because I know people will be like, well, I’m trying to be strategic and they’ll be very picky with who they choose. And I do think, okay, I agree. Like you should be, you know, obviously making sure that your values aligned in this and that, of course, I think those are so important, but also I think it’s, How, like, how are you collaborating to where it’s going to generate more, like revenue in your business or whatever the goals are.

I think sometimes we have this misconception as if like collaboration or like community can’t lead to money. And it actually is one of the best ways to be able to grow your business, to have more revenue in your business is being able to collaborate with others so that people know more about you. And so what are, what are some of the other benefits?

To collaborations. 

Danielle: Oh my goodness. There’s so many benefits and I, I think the thing that I love about collaborations is it’s a ripple effect, right? So, you know, I think to what you said, it is so important to understand that. When we are building connections, we’re building relationships, when we’re doing these collaborations, um, it can lead to success.

And it does lead to success in our own businesses, whether that be audience growth or revenue growth, those types of things. And those can happen, you know, when that collaboration takes place right away. And you see those results, or that can happen months later. Sometimes years later. I have so many examples of this.

It’s so wild to look back at my journey, you know, when I started, you know, nine and a half years ago and look to the people that I’m working with now or the opportunities that I have today, and I can directly Relate that back to a relationship that was started nine years ago and was cultivated. And now it’s like, wow, I would have never had this opportunity if it wasn’t for building on that connection and building that trust and that relationship back then.

And I think when you collaborate with entrepreneurs, you, you build that trust through working together. As long as you know, the respect is there and um, you’re both in it for benefiting one another And so yeah, I think that To hopefully answer your question is you know There’s so many different ways to collaborate and i’m happy to like go over some of those like tangible ways of thinking Someone’s like, what do you mean by collaboration?

Um, I’m happy to go into like tangible examples, but I think that absolutely it can result in, you know, audience growth, revenue growth, even things like that you would never think of, you know, when you’re growing your business, you want to also grow a team and you’re, you’re cultivating yourself. skills.

And so to pull from those relationships that you have to say like, Hey, who do you know that could, you know, support me in this way? Or have you taken any courses that teach this specific skill? Like I’m really looking to up level in this way, or what resource do you have or platform do you use for this?

And it’s all, you know, referral, a lot of it is referral based, right? And so I think that the ripple effects of it is so powerful, which is why I’m so passionate about it. There’s those immediate results, but then there’s those As results that come months or years later that you would never even know, and sometimes it’s cool to look back and trace those back to the collaborations that you’ve done.

Akua: Yes, I love that you talked about that because I think again like the ROI of collaborations community it’s truly like it can happen right away or it can happen months from now years from now but either way I think it’s it’s still an ROI regardless it’s still a very impactful thing because also too especially with referral you’re getting quality leads quality people that you know that you would love to work with right like I think again just that power of collaboration of community is just So, so key to be able to generate more revenue in your business.

And I think collaboration can be, it’s a longterm game. It’s a longterm game. Like truly it’s, you have, it takes time. And I think that’s where sometimes we have that misconception as if like, we’re better at just going alone or we’re better of like, you know, where we’re doing certain collaborations where we don’t really think of everybody.

We’re just thinking of ourselves. That’s where you’re not going to get very far. And I think that’s just such, such a good reminder. And so you said that you definitely have some tangible tips and I would just love to know, just. Some examples of creative collaborations that business owners could explore that they maybe had just never thought of.

Danielle: Oh my goodness. I love this. I could go on for days on this, but I will just share like a few tangible ones that we’ve done that, um, some of our clients have done that have been really powerful. So one of the best ways and one of the easiest ways, and you probably, if you’re listening to this, you’ve already done it.

So it’s basically creating content. collaboratively. So that could look like a podcast, right? You might already be doing this. Maybe you’ve been a guest on a podcast or you’re hosting your own podcast where you’re bringing on guests. And so that conversation in itself is a collaboration. So something like that, or if you don’t have a podcast, then, uh, even a blog, like, you know, guest writing on a blog or having someone else guest host.

Uh, right on your own blog as well that the same goes for newsletters or anything that you’re any kind of content that you’re putting out there. This can also be done on social media. The cool thing is, is that social media also makes it really easy for us to collaborate. So you know, if you think of like Instagram now has that like collaborative posts where you can add, I think up to five different accounts where you can all post on all your different platforms that is considered a collaboration.

You also joined events. It’s one of my absolute favorite ways to collaborate. So whether that be in person events that you’re hosting with a group of other people or with one other person, or that could be, uh, virtual events as well. So whether you’re hosting it as a group or you’re maybe bringing on guest speakers.

speakers, things like that. And then you can also do it if you have, even if you have like a product that you’re looking to get out there, whether that be a digital product or, or even a tangible product, it’s bundling products together. So, you know, thinking of other brands or other businesses that have audiences that are your ideal client and vice versa.

Um, you have people within your community that might be that other business’s ideal client. So coming together and either creating a bundle of products together that you sell, or possibly something that’s like a sample or a, you know, a free digital resource that you can put together and share it among your, all your networks.

Another thing that I’ve seen a lot in the product based That is so cool. And I think this can be done no matter what you can do. This with service to is with a purchase offering a bonus. for another person’s business. So for example, like, let’s say you have like a hair care company and then you, and someone else, you know, your friend has a skincare company.

What about putting like a sample of that product in a purchase for like a limited time? You can do that with digital products as well. Like, you know, bring on a bonus from someone else to put in your own, you know, promotional calendar. And then that’s a. That’s a win for everybody because it’s a bonus for your particular offer, but it’s also a bonus for them because they’re now getting in front of your audience too.

So again, I could go on forever. There’s so many ideas, but those are just a few that you could probably implement in very easily and um, something where you can kind of start to explore this idea of collaboration. 

Akua: Yeah. And I feel like there’s a lot of really like unique ways too that you can collaborate.

And I think like what you gave her such great starting points, like even for the podcast, what we have done on the show, we do collab casts where we will connect with other podcasts and we will exchange episodes. So where we have similar audiences. So we will give them one of our best performing episode, and then they will give the us one of theirs.

And then we played on each other’s player. I have also seen what other people do in the podcast realm. Ellen Yin did this with, uh, both previous guests. Uh, with Natasha as well. They’ll do like 10 tips for XYZ and they’ll collaborate together, record the episodes together, but the first five tips are on one show and the other five tips are on another show.

Right? So like there’s, there’s so many very unique ways that people can collaborate. And so even just to even further extend, are there any other unique ways that business owners, just cause I’m like, I’m realizing just even through that whole process, that there’s always an opportunity to collaborate in some very unique ways that truly do pay off.

Like the collab cast we have used that has absolutely. with the show growth? And so what are some other like maybe some unique ways that business owners may not be thinking of? Or how can business owner be more innovative as well when it comes to collaboration? 

Danielle: So good. So what I always share with people, with my clients, with my community is that think about what you’re already doing and just think to yourself, like ask yourself the question, how can I make this collaborative?

Right? So for example, let’s say you are planning on hosting a workshop, right? This could be a in person workshop. This could be a workshop online. Doesn’t matter. How could you make that collaborative? How could you bring on somebody? who maybe has a complimentary strength where they could come and they could, you know, um, do a, either you could interview them on that workshop, or maybe they could come on and do like a short little mini workshop within your workshop that’s supporting, you know, what you’re already sharing, what you’re already teaching.

So things like that, I think are really easy ways to just incorporate collaboration into what you’re already doing. It’s not that you have to, you know, stop what you’re doing and then just like do these random collaborations that maybe have nothing to do with, you know, what your marketing strategy is already, but it’s like, how can you actually just bring the collaboration right into the strategy that you’re already using for your business?

So a good example of this is for our last launch. Um, we have a program called action takers club. That is all about collaborations, using collaborations to grow your business. And what we did is we actually reached out to three people that we thought could really support this, um, this launch. And we had bonus live workshops for our community.

And so they offer that as bonuses. And then in exchange, we promoted them a lot during our launch and we showcase them and we, you know, shared with our community, like who they are, what they do, all these kinds of things. And then they showed up in our community and also were able to, you know, build stronger relationships within our brand.

Another thing that we did. And a lot of things that people maybe don’t, are not thinking of is for our launch, we brought on students of our program. So we brought on like our own clients and they actually just shared their own tips. Specifically on how they’ve used collaborations to grow their business.

And so we showcase them in our workshop and that was leading into the program itself. And so they felt really, um, highlighted and showcased in front of our community. And it was obviously a win for us as well because Everyone watching can see in real time like, Oh, these, this is what actual, you know, clients of a business based collective have done to grow their businesses.

This is the strategies that they used. So it’s just a win all around. So, yeah, I would say that think about what you’re already doing. How can you make it collaborative when you’re promoting something, whether it be at launch or an event? whatever that is. How can you bring in other communities? How can you bring in other people?

Um, and what can you offer them of value to make it worthwhile for them to be a part of what you are doing? So I think that’s the thing that people miss often is how can I get this person to promote my business, right? And so we have to really think about what is that other person wanting or needing in that moment?

How can I give that to them while also making it a win for everybody? So that’s kind of the mindset shift I always want people to have is how can we make it a win for everyone? That’s when collaborations are the most fruitful, the most profitable and the most successful and everyone wins 

Akua: in that, right?

I love that so much. So many great, useful, like already, even with my, in my mind, there’s like ideas that are popping up cause I’m having, I’m launching my, my first course later this fall and I’m like, Oh yeah, like I can have people come in and teach within there. You know what I mean? To provide value in other areas, to make the course more rounded.

And then also too, it provides, um, that visibility where people can go check out their business. Again, like, I love that where it’s like, work with what you have and ask yourself, like, how can I make this collaborative? How can I include people? I feel like collaboration and just. Yeah. In general, it’s like a dance, right?

Like what are some steps that business owners can find the right person to collaborate with, especially for those who have a smaller audience, because I do think when you have a smaller audience, like myself, I’m one of them, where if you can collaborate and very strategically, it can really like propel that audience growth forward.

So then when you do have a launch that you’re preparing for, you have an audience that’s primed and ready to go. And so what are some things. that we should be thinking about. Number one, how to find the right people to collaborate with. How do we deal with rejection when they say no? I think that’s a big thing.

Um, so I just asked you like two questions within that, but those, 

Danielle: I love it. I love it. Oh my goodness. Well, this is like one of the biggest hurdles that I find within our community of people saying, you know, I don’t know how to collaborate because I don’t have a big audience. And I always share with them, you don’t have to have, a large audience.

Think of all of the value that you provide, you being you, right? Your specific business. What are, what value can you share and what does that look like? And maybe at the beginning, it’s your expertise, right? It’s something that you can share, whether that be a, you know, knowledge around a certain area where you can support someone else.

Um, also showing up in. other communities of audiences where you also want to get in front of is really powerful. So showing up in those communities, um, you know, I found some of, some of the closest, you know, business connections that I’ve had through being a part of other communities or courses or different, different areas where I’ve been like, Oh my goodness.

Okay. I, I love that person. I’m going to, I’m going to reach out to them. I’m just going to support them. I’m going to, you know, sometimes it starts with just. supporting that person. I think sometimes we want to go straight to the like, let’s collaborate. I want you to be a part of this. And not that it can’t be that because I’ve cold, cold pitch people before, and we can talk about that and how to make it less cold.

But, you know, I think that sometimes it takes time to really build that connection and build that relationship and build that trust to where then that person would be open to doing a collaboration with you. And so. I think what I always share with people is make a list, get out a spreadsheet, make a list of your dream collaborators.

Make a list of people that you would love to work with one day and make it your mission to connect with them, to build connection, to build relationship, to support them however you can. And then from there, it’s, okay, how can you add value? to that person. And sometimes that takes some brainpower to be like, okay, what are they working on right now?

What could, what could I provide that might be a value? So maybe that is going to someone and saying, Hey, I have this expertise. I know you have this launch coming up. Would you be interested in me providing a bonus resource for your community? Um, in this way, I can show up and I can host a guest, you know, workshop within your community, whatever that looks like.

And yeah, sometimes it is, you know, pitching yourself for podcasts. And I did, I think it was back in, I think it was 2022, I believe it was, or maybe it was 2023. And I was just like, you know what, I’m going to go ahead and I’m going to pitch myself to, I think I pitched myself to like. 50 podcasts or something like that.

And, but I did do the work of making sure I listened to the podcast. You know, I rated and reviewed the podcast. I supported that podcast. And then I went, Hey, you know, I was listening to this episode. I really loved what you said about XYZ. That really resonated with me. Um, I would love to collaborate with you and I would love to come on your podcast and share about this.

I would also love to share that with the people that in my community, it doesn’t matter how many people are in your community. If it’s an aligned audience, that is incredibly valuable. So sometimes we think we have to have, you know, thousands of people on our email list or, or hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram.

Absolutely not. Like I’ve been doing collaborations for nine years when I started. As with everyone, I had zero followers and I probably did more collaborations back then that I’m even doing now because I was building up my connections and my network. And so, um, again, kind of like what we talked about at the beginning, it’s recognizing that sometimes you’re going to be planting those seeds and building those relationships and the fruit of that might not come right away, but it might come.

Months from now or even years from now and being okay with that so to answer your question of like, how do we? How do we deal with like the rejection of and no it’s knowing that you know What if that if there’s a door closed that means that? You’re being guided in a different direction for that time and it doesn’t mean that that is Always gonna be a no it could be a no for right now And maybe we can, you know, revisit that in the future.

Um, and I’ve also had so many situations where people have said like, Hey, I’d love to be a part of what you’re doing right now is a really busy season. Let’s loop back around in a, in like next quarter or even next year. And it’s having that organization and also that tenacity to be like, yes, actually I will follow up with that person.

And people are actually surprised when you do follow up. Because often when that happens, people are like, okay, I’ll reach back out. And then they just kind of totally forget about it. Be that person that actually does reach back out and build that connection. And in the meantime, support that person, follow them, engage with their content.

Um, build that trust. So yeah, hopefully that answered your question. Questions or questions? 

Akua: Oh, yeah, and I think there were so many useful things that you shared within that and um, this makes me think of our episode that we did with Lucretia Davis. The topic was on LinkedIn, but she said this and I feel like this can apply to so many things.

She’s like, there’s money in the follow up. So if you’re 

Danielle: good, yeah, yes. I’m like, if 

Akua: you’re not following up, you’re losing money. Like you’re leaving money on the table. And I think that’s such a good point of sometimes when people say no, it’s like they’re in a season or, you know, I was on somebody else’s podcast.

I’ve, they were guests that I would love to come on the show. They asked me to be on their show. I was like, Oh my gosh, yes. I asked him to come on our show. They said they didn’t have the capacity. And I was like, all right, that’s great. Like, you know what I mean? You just, you just don’t take it personal.

And you know, cause we don’t really know what’s going on in people’s lives. We don’t understand. Um, we don’t have the full picture of what’s. So, you know, I always just view it as like, whoever I’m meant to collaborate with or connect with in this season, that’s who I meant to do it with. And so like, I love the tip though, of like actually creating a spreadsheet and really thinking about who specifically that you would actually like a person, a dream person that you’d love to collaborate with.

But then you’re actually really doing your homework on that. Like, what are they actually launching? Can your products or services be actually a good fit for them? Because it may not be. And I think taking that time to do the work will actually. help you find a collaborator that’s going to be much, much more aligned with you.

And so I think that’s just so valuable, but let’s talk about some of the cold pitching though. Cause I didn’t even think about that. Cause already what I’m like thinking about collaborations, I’m already thinking about people that I already know, but if you’re like, Hey, I see somebody and I don’t have a relationship with them, but I know for a fact that their audience will align with me and also to my artists will also align with them.

Let’s talk about some of these cold pitching strategies to where like, I was like, Oh, I didn’t even think of that. So let’s talk about some of the cold pitching strategies that you have to be able to find people to collaborate with. 

Danielle: Yeah. So whenever I’m doing like, uh, you know, a cold pitch, which I will say that I never go in fully cold.

I figure out, okay, so this is someone that I don’t. right now have a connection or a relationship with. So then I have a few like strategic things that I will do before I even get to the point where I’m ready to send that email. So first and foremost, I figure out, okay, so is that brand or that business or that person or on any social platforms that I’m also active on.

So that could be Instagram. That could be wherever LinkedIn, wherever you are most active. And then I will go ahead and I’ll make sure to follow that person. I’ll connect with that person, engage with their content. And then also really, really, Do my homework, like you said, to figure out, okay, I’m looking at some of their posts.

I, you know, originally I thought that person was someone that I wanted to collaborate with. Is that someone that actually does align with, with my values, with the types, the type of business that I have? Do I think that a collaboration between us would be appropriate? a successful collaboration. And so looking into that, then I also look for, is there anyone, a part of their network that I maybe already have connections to, or, um, like kind of similar, you know, connections or people that I’ve, maybe I look at like their photos.

I’m like, Oh, they spoke at that event. Actually, I know that person who is also a speaker at that event. So, you know, you look for those. Uh, potential similar connections and then from there you really figure out again like what I talked about before is there anything that they’re, they’re working on or something exciting that’s recently maybe happened for them or their business and so when I go to actually do the cold pitch.

I’m You I’m referencing those specific things. Now you can also go one step further. And if you have a close connection with someone that they’re connected to, you can connect with that other friend and say, Hey, um, I was just wondering, I like no problem if not, and never put any pressure on it because that’s always like really awkward when you’re like, Hey, can you introduce me to this person?

Um, so you can say like, Hey, no problem. If not, if you’d feel uncomfortable. Um, but I was wanting to ask. this person to be a part of this thing? Do you think that’s something they would be interested in? Would you feel comfortable to either send a connection email or can I mention you in my email to them to pitch for this, this thing, right?

And so, um, that’s kind of doing like a step further. And so, maybe you get that connection email, or maybe they say, Yeah, no problem. Why don’t you just mention my name in your email? Like, let them know that we’re friends, kind of thing. And so, I’ll send that email, I’ll say like, you know, Like, let’s say, I know, because we were talking about Ellen before, Um, and Ellen’s a good friend of mine.

She was just at one of our events. So I would say like, Hey Ellen, you know, I have been listening to your podcast. I’m absolutely obsessed with your podcast. I listened to everything, every single episode. I really loved that recent episode where you talked about XYZ and you had this guest, your conversation was incredible.

And then I’ll say like, I, um, I went ahead and I, I reviewed your podcast and following it. I noticed that you have this exciting thing coming up. And I would really love to support you in this. Would you be interested in coming on the podcast and talking about, you know, specifically your journey. And then also you can mention, you know, this launch that you have coming up and I’ll be sharing that with my community, both.

on the podcast, but then also after within the email list, that kind of thing. So that’s kind of an example of like what I would do if I didn’t already have a relationship with Ellen and I wanted to have that relationship. And then maybe I say like, Hey, you know, I noticed your friends with Linda, who’s, you know, a mutual friend of her.

And I, I, I know that you’re friends with Linda. Um, I absolutely love Linda and we’ve done this specific collaboration together. So I would mention things like that to. for her to understand, okay, this person’s coming in, but into my inbox, I don’t know who this person is, but she’s already connected to this person and this person.

So it also helps to like gain that trust. So that’s what I would do as much. specificity as I can give to not only what they’re up to and what they’re doing, but how I’ve already been a part of their community, even if they have no idea who I am. I’m much more likely to be warm to that type of pitch from someone who’s like, Hey, I’ve either attended one of your events, or I’ve been listening to the podcast.

And also people can tell. When you’re saying I’ve been listening to the podcast and you really haven’t, people can tell. 

Akua: We can tell. You’re not wrong. 

Danielle: So, you know, be authentic, be real, be honest. I think people really, especially in the online space, they really appreciate honesty and authenticity. And so, um, Yeah, don’t lie in your pitches.

I don’t, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t hope, hopefully I don’t even have to say that, but it happens all the time. And so how you are going to stand out with your pitch is being authentic, being real and have it be about them more than it is about you. 

Akua: Yes. Love that. Also shout out to Ellen. We love Ellen, honey.

Yes, we do. We have, she’s also one of the people that we collab cast with. Ellen is absolutely phenomenal. So shout out to her. And yes, I love so much. So much of that because I was actually going to ask and even into the next question just talking about that etiquette piece, right? Like you have to have some decorum out here when you’re going to be collaborating with people.

And I loved how you touched base on that of like, let’s not lie. Number one. And especially to like, if you’re going to name drop, make sure that you actually have that person’s permission to do that. Because I absolutely have been put in an awkward position for where I was named dropped for something.

And I was completely caught off guard. I was like, I don’t even know what’s happening. You know what I mean? And it just doesn’t leave You feeling good. It doesn’t leave you know what I mean? So I think any other etiquette tips as well in terms of collaboration I think to add to that it’s just like for me personally I always think of myself number one How would I like to be treated if i’m in that situation number one like having that empathy also to like It’s about the other person and not me.

So it’s like how, like this is a team effort. So that’s how, those are the two things that I always think about. 

Danielle: Mm hmm. 

Akua: That really determines how I choose to move in terms of collaboration. Any other etiquette tips that you have? 

Danielle: Yeah, I mean, for sure. I think being specific is also really important. And that’s something that maybe a lot of people don’t know that is important.

Because, you know, We’re all very busy, right? Like it’s not that we’re like sitting here at our desk Just like twiddling our thumbs like what should I do right now? Like we’ve got a list of things we got to do, right? And so if you are vague in your approach and it’s like hey would love to collaborate Use the word collaborate, but then outside of using the word collaborate you have no sense specifics on how you’re looking to do that, or what you’re asking, like what the actual ask is.

And so what ends up happening is that person opens up that email, even if you’ve come across very, um, you know, authentic, you have, um, been very specific with like what you love about what they’re doing and all of those things. If you say would love to collaborate with you and you leave it super open ended, that person has no idea where to take that.

And then all of a sudden the responsibility is on them to think of a opportunity to collaborate. And so you need to be as specific as possible. If you’re asking them, just be transparent. And I think that’s just like, you know what we were talking about before, be transparent. Are you wanting them to be on your podcast?

Are you wanting to be on their podcast? Are you wanting to ask them if they’d be a part of one of your events or you want to collaborate and do, you know, a social media collaboration, whatever that looks like, right? Be really specific. And then on top of that too, um, this is something that’s really important is have something like create something.

amazing that people want to be a part of. So have it be like, this is, this collaboration, have, have a collaboration in mind. If you say, for example, I love collaborations with like multiple different people at once. I think it’s so cool when you can get like, you know, we’ve done virtual events, for example, where we’ve had like 21 speakers at our events.

And yes, it’s a lot of time and effort to put together, but the power of it is so amazing. So incredible. And so, you know, have it be like, this is happening with or without you. Do you want to be a part of it? Right? And it’s not that you say that, like this is happening with or without you, um, obviously that could come across a little bit rude, but it’s more like, Hey, we’re hosting this event or I’m putting together this collaboration or I’m, um, putting together a newsletter where I’m featuring, you know, 10 different businesses in this specific niche.

And so you are already doing the thing you want them to be a part of it. And so you’re asking them to come on board as a collaborator. If you say something like, Hey, I’d love to do this with you, right? But there’s no like, you know, Oh, I’m wanting to launch a podcast and I want you to be the first guest.

You know, maybe some people would be like, Oh, that’s cool. I’d love to be the first guest, but like have something going that you’re like bringing them along, along the ride too. Does that make sense? So that’s, that is like one of the tips that I would say would be, um, you’re going to have better results if you approach it that way, rather than Having, have the entire collaboration hinge on them saying yes or no, it’s also going to make the nose way less devastating if you are, you know, reaching out to multiple people to have this collaboration come to fruition.

And I usually say to, you know, especially if you’re just getting started, if you’re going to, if you want 10 people to be a part of a collaboration, you might have to pitch a hundred people. And I know some people are like, Oh my gosh, that’s. I don’t even want to do this anymore. It’s like that’s sometimes what it takes.

Especially if it’s your first time and you don’t have any connections outside of that. So think about what are you willing to do if you want to do some of the lower lift collaborations like social media collaborations or that kind of thing, great. But if you want to do this like big collaboration that maybe you see other people do, know how much potential time and effort it does take to put something like that together.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. That is so good. So, so helpful. Like, again, already. I love that, that specificity piece, be very clear, let them, don’t put it on them, like literally tell them exactly what you’re looking for, just be very honest and transparent. And I think that’s going to get people way further than, you know, not being honest or not being very clear, communicating clearly expectations and all of that.

I think that’s so, so key. I know that there’s some people listening that have done collaborations and have been burned, right? Like it happens. Have you been burned? I’m assuming? Yes. Yeah. Okay. And so when that happens, how have you dealt with that essentially? How have you Because it’s not, it’s really hard, you know what I mean, because I think with collaborating, you have both parties and right, you’re both hoping, you’re hoping that the person will do right by you and vice versa.

And sometimes people just don’t. And so I would love to know your thoughts of how you navigated that with being burned. Because I just, I don’t want people to feel discouraged. Like this is a learning opportunity and you use that to keep moving forward because there is power in collaborating. 

Danielle: Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. This is such a good question because yeah, obviously over the past. nine and a half years of collaborating. There’s been many times, many, many, many, many times, um, where we, where we’ve been burned. And I think that what really is important is before you even go into a collaboration is really looking for those, red flags and being aware of the things that might show you that maybe this wouldn’t be a collaboration.

So again, doing your homework, when you do your homework and you actually dive in and learn more about that person first, before you even set up the collaboration, the more you can do that, the better. If you get excited about the thought of, Oh, this person has a massive audience or, you know, they, I’ve seen them on, you know, all these, big podcast or big stages before you just go ahead and say, okay, that’s who I want to collaborate with.

Really do your homework and figure out. And then there’s also something to be said of maybe the collaboration does happen. Everyone holds up their, um, you know, their expectations and all this kind of stuff, but the collaboration completely flops. And that has happened as well, too. And that usually happens when the audiences are not aligned.

You might think they are, but again, doing that homework and doing that, um, research beforehand, so you’re not doing all of this time and effort and work to put into something that then is not going to have the results that you think it will. So I always say, too, like, To collaborate with people that have, like, nicher, um, audiences is usually actually better than just trying to go for, like, the numbers.

And so that is really important. But when it comes to what do I do, I mean, setting up those expectations at the beginning is really important. Communication. is vital throughout the collaboration. So being in constant contact with that person right from the get go and then also through to the other side and after the collaboration is really important because there could be maybe some unmet expectations that fell through the cracks.

Maybe their assistant was handling something and something got fell through the cracks and it, it didn’t work. isn’t necessarily a reflection on them. It’s just that, you know, things happen. And so I think that communication piece is really, really important because you also want to give people the benefit of the doubt instead of assuming they’re a bad person or, you know, they’re, you know, trying to, you know, not hold up their end of the deal.

So that’s number one. And then, you know, when it does happen, I always think about this, like, is this worth my own Like, is this worth my own, um, state of mind to get justice in this scenario, if that makes sense? And so I think sometimes it’s really like letting it go. And I think sometimes there’s a lot of things in business where we truly just have to like think about, is this worth?

Um, the, the time and effort and energy to, to, you know, try to, to have this person do what they said that they were going to do. Um, and a lot of the times, especially for me, I’m like, you know what? It’s a learning lesson that I learned. probably will not be collaborating with this person again, um, because of this, or it just teaches me something on how to set things things up in the future.

And even sometimes it’s like a collaboration may have not been as successful. It doesn’t mean necessarily that that person wasn’t a good collaborator, but maybe it was the way that we collaborated that just did not work. And so it’s like thinking outside the box in that way too, of, um, you know, I really still, um, do love this person and really, and like, think that we’d be good collaborators.

But I think if we collaborate in this other way, it might actually be a success. So again, it’s kind of taking every scenario individually and thinking about how you can learn for the next, the next time around, but don’t let that, discourage you from not doing it again because There’s been so many times where like if I would have just been like, oh, yeah The first time I did this and it didn’t work and it wasn’t successful You know I talk about this a lot when it comes to events both virtual and in person and you know people say like oh, yeah, I tried to host an event one time and you know, I I lost money and I didn’t have as many people as I wanted to i’m like Yep.

Same. Like that. And you know, my basically my first like two years of hosting events. That was the reality because I didn’t know what I was doing. And so, um, but now we can host very successful, profitable. Um, often sold out events because we’ve done it and we’ve learned and we’ve grown and we’ve figured out how to do it right.

And so that’s what I would say. I think it relates to anything in business. Um, you can’t just assume that if you do it once and it doesn’t work that it’s not for you. I think that would be giving yourself a disservice that, you know, you might be really good at something. You just haven’t had the practice to do it successfully yet.

Akua: Yes, oh my gosh so much so much goodness that you have shared throughout this whole episode Like i’m like now so excited to go out and like connect with people collaborate Like literally the wheels are already turning on mine But I love what you said too of just like sometimes you just have to let it go.

I mean It’s like, I would say I’m like, sometimes I just have to lick my wounds and then keep it pushing. Uh, because again, it is a learning experience. Not everybody is like that. And so, and yes, to your point of like, sometimes collaborations do just flop. So what are the expectations? What’s the communication?

And I think again, it’s like just taking the time to learn, but even just based on you for somebody who’s been doing this for nine years, it’s clear that this has paid off way more than the ones that you’ve been burned. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it’s very clear that you have had some very meaningful collaborations.

Where the ones that didn’t work out don’t even matter. And so I think this is just a testament of like for business owners just to be encouraged, like to be able to find the right people to collaborate with. They are absolutely out there and you can absolutely, um, build such great relationships that can strengthen both of your businesses.

So I absolutely love that. And this conversation has been so, so impactful. Like I said, the wheels are turning on my end. I know if you’re listening, I’m sure you’re thinking of the same way. So, the final question that we love to end with is, what do you think is the biggest differentiator between the businesses that succeed and the ones that fail?

Danielle: Oh, that’s such a good question. I think that one is tenacity. You gotta have a lot of tenacity when you’re building a business to overcome the challenges that come because there will be challenges. In any scenario as you’re growing, even when you grow to a certain successful point, there’s going to be other challenges that come up.

And I think the other one is focusing on. community. Again, it’s, it’s something that I think is vital, especially if you consider yourself more of like a solo entrepreneur. If you have a small team, building connections and relationships with other people, it could be like your lifeline and certain seasons of your business when you’re potentially stuck.

in a negative spiral, or you’re thinking of just like throwing in the towel. To have those people that understand, that have been through what you’re going through, and that can remind you of why you’re doing what you’re doing, I think is so important. So important. 

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. Love that. Love that so much.

I have absolutely loved this conversation. I think it’s given such a great and real perspective of just collaborating and how we can just have such a really big impact on your business. And so Danielle, for those that want to connect with you, where can they find you? Where can we support you? 

Danielle: Well, thank you so much.

I really appreciate that. And I love this conversation. I loved your questions. Yes. Yes. So, and I can’t wait to see what kind of collaborations you have up your sleeve. So let me know. Um, you can find me, we have a podcast, so it’s just business babes collective. Anywhere you find your podcasts. So we share behind the scenes, um, we have, uh, interview based episodes and also I share kind of behind the scenes of our own business and different collaborations that we are doing as well.

You can also find me on Instagram. My personal Instagram is dannylivinglife and then, uh, danny with an I, and then business babes co is our Instagram for all things business and events and all those fun things. 

Akua: Oh, love it. Uh, thank you so much, Danielle. I really appreciate it. And for everybody listening, I hope now that you are going to go out, step out and find amazing people to collaborate with and everybody listening.

Until next time. So thank you. That ends our episode of the independent business podcast. Everything we’ve discussed today can be found at podcast. honeybook. com. Head to our website to access for show notes, relevant links, and all of the resources that you need to level up. And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe to the podcast to make sure you never miss our future content, drop us a review and leave our guests some love on social.

And thank you again for listening.