Your guide to converting Instagram followers into customers with Michelle Gifford

Akua: Now more than ever, it is important to have a social media strategy that is intentional and is going to lead to results in your business. Michelle Gifford, who is an Instagram expert, joins us to talk about all things Instagram and social media. And we address the recent news of the TikTok ban and what business owners should be doing, how to use Instagram to convert your followers for more sales, and the best way to research so that you can have an Easier time finding the content you want to create.

Michelle reminds us that you can be successful on Instagram. If you go all in lead with intention and take action. Now let’s get into the episode. Welcome to Unbreakable Business, the podcast where we uncover the untold stories behind entrepreneurship. This isn’t about polished success stories. It’s about the sleepless nights, unexpected roadblocks, and unshakable grit that builds businesses that last.

Every week we sit down with entrepreneurs who faced it all, sharing raw, honest conversations about challenges, growth, and the moments that made them unbreakable. Whether you’re just starting out or chasing your next breakthrough, this podcast is your reminder that you have the strength to keep going.

Michelle, welcome to the Unbreakable Business

Michelle: Podcast. How are we doing? I am doing good. I’m, it’s really good. There’s a lot going on. So I am like in the social media news. So I’m excited to talk to you today.

Akua: Yeah. I mean, we got to address the element in the room because I’m not going to lie. Like I already had your episode prep and then I saw the news and I was like, yeah, we’re going to throw this out

Michelle: the window.

Let’s just talk about it, man. Let’s just

Akua: talk about it. So we got news today, this morning that the Supreme Court is upholding the TikTok ban. Now obviously a lot of things can change, but what are some of your, when you first heard that say, what were some of your initial thoughts?

Michelle: Well, I thought it could never happen, right?

Like when they first started doing this and I mean, it’s been a long time coming and I thought they’re not going to do this. Like something else is going to happen. And um, I mean, and it’s bipartisan. There’s like so many really interesting things about this case and we should all really be paying attention.

So first things I’m like, well. All right, like we’re doing this and there’s going to be a lot of repercussions from this And it’ll be interesting to see like obviously how it shakes out There’s so many things with like trump coming in on monday and he’s now he wasn’t always but he is now a fan of tiktok and He wants to start negotiations with So I, I think that what this is highlighting is, um, like in the past, I think that social media has been pretty separate from, I mean, like you’re on social media and now social media is in, like, I think it always was driving politics in a lot of ways, just like with what things we’re talking about.

And now we are like. Oh, okay. Social media is a real thing and it has a huge global implications. And now the government’s like looking at it. And of course, because TikTok is, you know, with ByteDance, the Chinese company, like it makes such a big difference. So I, I think it will shape like how we move forward with some social media.

So I’m, I’m excited to see what happens.

Akua: Yeah, I mean, I’m excited to stress impressed.

Michelle: I’m like, oh yeah, there’s stress going on,

Akua: but I’m like, I know I’m like excited to stress press bamboozled bewildered. How did we end up here? Like there’s so many adjectives of how I feel and I’m sure that there’s. So many business owners that do feel that way because I was the same way.

I was like, there’s no way that they’re going to be on this. I was like, you know, you guys, it’s 2024 now we’re in 2025. And I’m like, right. Like we’re free to do whatever we want and view things that we want. Right. And I think again, to your point, there were a lot of major world events that happened last year that really shifted the way, just really number one, spoke to how powerful social media is and how it can truly influence.

A lot of people in various different directions. And to your point, I think it was, I mean, TikTok has been such a powerful platform for the, from the jump. And I think a lot of people have seen it for a good parts and not so good parts as well. So I’m like really interested. I also am still kind of maybe naive where I’m like, it’s not going to happen.

I’m like. You know, president’s elect Donald Trump. I’m like, he going to do was a solid. I,

Michelle: right. I mean, there’s, I mean, he’s done wilder things. So I also think that what is like, as we’re talking about, I think what really gets lost is that it’s, the government doesn’t actually care about TikTok, the platform.

They actually want that to keep going, but it’s to remove Chinese in like influence and to get the government, the Chinese government who actually does not. It’s not working for our best good, right, and is actively working against us and to get them out of the lives and out of the data of individual Americans.

So, um, and I think that people are like, well, it’s free speech. And I’m like, I get that. And I don’t think they’re removing the free speech on the platform, but they’re trying to remove the dangers from the platform.

Akua: And I think at this point it’s kind of like they’re doing what they feel is best. And so now that this news is coming out and we don’t know the unknown, right, whether it comes back or not, what.

Main thing, do you want business owners to know, especially considering the fact that maybe a lot of, there’s a lot of small business owners. Like we’ve seen amazing things that have come from tick tock where a lot of businesses have built successful business from tick tock, I mean, they’re making money off the platform.

What is one thing that you want to say to, to those business owners?

Michelle: Well, I will say that you are, you have not lost anything as far as, well, let’s not say that, but you have like, but whatever you have gained in learning how to grow and build a business on TikTok, you can take anywhere. And that is invaluable information because I, I love.

Um, Instagram and I love TikTok in that it has a really low barrier to entry in like you can just open your phone You can get going but that um the skills that it takes to message and to speak and to know your audience Like once you learn how to do that, you can take that anywhere now it still is really hard like to start over or whatever and um Man, that is painful.

And I would hope that as part of you showing up on TikTok as a business, that you have started to take it seriously in the, like you’re, you’re getting your audience on a place you own, like either an email list, or maybe you’re doing sub stack or whatever like that. And, and so to just know that like you are carrying stuff with you, right.

And you, if. If TikTok still is running by the time this is aired, like can, um, how can you take those next steps? I mean, I feel that way with Instagram too, right? Where the algorithm can change or stuff can happen. Like we better be proactively getting people on an email list so that when stuff does go bananas, we can still communicate to our audience.

Akua: Yeah. I think too, I’ve obviously, Substack is starting to grow. Um, and I know they’re obviously piggybacking off of like everything that’s happening, but to your point, I think an email list, and I know we’ve heard that all the time of like, you don’t own these platforms. And I think a lot of us were like, Oh yeah, we know, we know.

But now to see it kind of in real time, I do see email marketing absolutely skyrocketing, which I would love to kind of eventually move into that. But I think whether or not, right, like what happens? I think. Instagram is like, there’s some platforms that are consistent that have never gone away that are going to continue to be here, YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram, right?

And so, what is the main, now, even regarding Instagram, what do you think is the main thing that will lead you to success in 2025?

Michelle: On Instagram or all the other places, just on Instagram, on Instagram. Um, well, it’s really going to be interesting, like as, because I think that we’re going to see, even if TikTok sticks around, I think people are going to start diversifying their platform and their audiences just because it’s a smart thing to do.

And so I do think that we’re going to have an influx of TikTok people, creators come on Instagram and because of that, it will change how, I mean, it already does, right? Like, I feel like. You know, Tik TOK happens and then those things they filter into Instagram. It’s kind of just the flow of things. And so the things that I see in 2025 is that there’s, is that there will be a Tik TOKification of Instagram where people, you know, Instagram used to be very, very like short form, I mean, of course, but like 10 to 12 second videos.

And I think for those brands that are really making an impact, they’re going to figure out how do you have like. A little bit longer form content and also like signature content that people like want to come back for and really build that audience because we’re no longer doing like a seven second video with a hook and then read the caption.

People are over that, right? Thanks. 2024. Goodbye. And now in 2025, it’s like, no, there are so many options now. Like what value do you add? And can you show me that value within the first three seconds? And, and so as we’re building our Instagram strategy, like. How can we go deeper with our audience and then how can we start implementing, um, using some of the other options like carousel posts are huge right now.

And I think they will continue to be huge because, um, you know, before with Instagram reels were the only, they were the only thing that was being pushed out to non followers. And that’s just not true anymore. Instagram is now pushing out carousels. And the cool thing about carousels is if someone sees your carousel once, your follower, and then they don’t see.

can’t see it and they don’t interact. Instagram will put that carousel, a different slide in front of them. Right. So that gives like more options to work with them. It’s also been a really, I mean, you’ve probably seen the, like people doing like a couple of photos and you swipe through and it tells a story.

Akua: And

Michelle: because most of us are watching Instagram with our sound off, then it’s Like that makes for an easy, easy, really digestible piece of content. And it’s really connecting. And I think that like with all of the trends, all of the things, I think it will come down to who can connect with our audience best and fastest on Instagram.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that. That’s just such a really great way for us to start thinking strategically, um, about Instagram. And I think of overall, like what you, like, even with all the other platforms, who’s going to be able to connect the deepest and the fastest. Um, and I think that’s something that business owners, we really need to take into account.

Cause number one, I’m like, it’s the beginning of the year. I feel like this is such a great time to really revamp. I’m going to be talking about how to revisit and look at your strategy and see what works and what doesn’t work and how you want to be able to move forward. And I said this to you in a previous episode, I’m like, there is now multiple ways to growth on Instagram because to your point, it was heavily like reels, reels, reels, reels.

And now you can do a carousel post or a reel or whatever. Is going to be a fit for you and your account and like obviously too based on your strategy. And so, a question that I have for you is because you like mentioned earlier of like, Okay, it’s no longer enough to have a reel where it’s like, Oh yeah, look in the caption and stuff like that.

How are you essentially Capturing, like hooking people in right away with your content.

Michelle: Yeah, there. And I like you use the word hooks, right? Cause there are a lot of different hooks you can use. There is the visual hook where something actually happens on the screen and. Like immediately so that it’s something of interest.

You’ll notice I’ve been noticing this, like even the last couple of weeks, like people like pouring something into a cup, you know, and they’re, or like building something or, or whisking something. And it’s just some kind of movement that like gets us to stop. And even if you’re doing like a talking head video.

Where it’s just you face to camera, even having some of that, um, video zoom in or zoom out is something that you can do and that’s post production. So that makes it easier to do. Um, and so I, I think just having that visual hook is good because it stops the scroll and then a verbal or written, I say written because.

Most people aren’t listening. Right. Um, but have a written hook and it’s not enough to just have like seven steps to not being tired today. We have to start having an adding that curiosity to our hooks. So the one thing that kept me up last night. Okay. That’s something you actually want to stick around and like, no, right?

Like, what was she thinking about last night? But if, but you know, we’ve been, we, we think that if we can just do like a list and the title that that’s going to stop, stop people in their tracks. But it really comes down to how do I pique their curiosity and speak directly to them? So do we know our audience well enough to know that they weren’t sleeping last night?

You know, because whatever our, you know, whatever it is that they have. If you’re like a health account or something like that, and you’re like, they have trouble sleeping. Okay, then you’re going to speak directly to that problem. And I think that that is going to be like, when I said, like, who’s going to be able to connect the fastest,

Akua: it will

Michelle: come down, do we know on a deep end, like very specific level, what their problem is?

And can we speak directly to it? And it’s, I mean, we do, I think if we take a minute and take a step back, we actually are like, oh, we know, it’s not like even, okay. Like, for me, a lot, my audience wants to grow on Instagram, right? That’s their problem. But if I just say, do you want to grow on Instagram?

That’s pretty generic, right? But if, but if I’m like, hey, do you want to get out of 200 view jail? Let’s do this. Right? Then they’re like, Oh yeah, I’m so tired of my reels only getting 200 views. And then they completely stop and it’s specific. And so it is so much more applicable and personal. And then that connection is made very quickly.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that so much of just how you really broke that down in just greater detail, because I do feel like when we hear a lot of advice in regards to social media and growth, it is very generic, right? Like even those examples are super helpful. And uh, And again, like really driving it back home that you need to know your, your target audience and you need to know them deeply, like emotionally.

And so, and that’s something like as a storytelling strategist that I lean in heavily to. Cause I’m like, once you’re able to really connect that like, once you know what they’re feeling and you’re able to immediately connect to that, they’re more likely to engage with you. They’re more likely to buy from you.

You’re making the decision easier for them to purchase from you and so many other things. And so I love that you really just emphasize that even more of like, if we stop for a second to take the time to actually like. Check in of like is this actually going to connect my audience because I have like my little checklist whenever I’m getting ready to Create content, especially when I’m creating like more of a storytelling piece Like is this valuable or you know, what emotions do I want people to feel?

What’s the action? I want them to take I think sometimes we are like With Instagram or like, Oh yeah, I can just do a post quick or whatever. And I mean it’s hit or miss, right? Like I mean sometimes it does well, sometimes it doesn’t, but I think, you know, where you are creating content that you feel really confident in that number one is going to drive sales, right?

And then going beyond of like, okay, I’m looking to grow my followers, but this is actually going to build deep connections to help me drive sales in my business. I think again, leaning more in with the connections and really identifying their pain point so that you’re able to be more innovative with your content.

Love that. So a question that I really want to ask is, you know, what are some of the best practices this year in order to like convert on Instagram? I think, like, I think for a lot of us as business owners, it’s no longer a priority to, um, grow because it’s really difficult. I mean, I posted a reel today and I was like, I wasn’t shocked.

It didn’t do well. Cause I’m like, you know what I mean? I just was like, whatever. Um, you know, and it wasn’t like any high education value. It was just like kind of like a fun trip that I just took or whatever. But I think, you know, I think a lot of business owners, we’re on Instagram because we have to be.

And, you know, we’re kind of just going through the motions. And I think a lot of us, again, this is the perfect time to really just lean in with a lot more intentionality. And we had an earlier episode that talks about building that community right on Instagram. And so I’m like, I really want us to focus on that conversions of like, You know, because we hear all the time that popularity doesn’t pay the bills.

So what are you seeing? I know I hit that line. It’s so, I love it. I’m here for it. Yeah. Yes. Right. Like likes or not. I’m like, I’m, I need money. And so I can’t deny. And so, you know, it’s like, what strategies are you seeing that have really led to business owners, um, where Instagram has become this place of income for business owners.

Michelle: Yeah. And one thing I’ll say before, like the exact conversion advice, which I do have, um, but when I, when I took my business and my Instagram very seriously, I made one big change and it was that I started looking at the content I created on Instagram. As a content funnel. So content funnels aren’t new, right?

You attract, you nurture, then you sell. And so when I realized that I was like, Oh my gosh, like I am just putting out nurture content. I’m like, of course I’m not going to grow.

Akua: And

Michelle: so I broke down my content and I’m like, my goal is I want to grow. So I did, but I also, if you do all attraction content, then what happens is that you don’t nurture that audience.

And then it’s not a community. So I could post a lot of cat videos and I’m sure get like millions of followers, but. That doesn’t pay the bills. Right. So I need to create content that attracts people, other content. I need to nurture those people and the other content I need to sell. And so when I realized that it completely changed how I showed up on Instagram, because then I was like, you know, I just, if you just posted like a trip, you know, like where you just did some vacay pictures or whatever, that’s a nurture post and I don’t need it to convert.

So, so I’m not judging it against like unrealistic expectation. And so just, just having that framework completely changed how I showed up on Instagram and how like my clients and, you know, people are showing up because it’s like, oh, okay, I can actually have a strategy in. And have a say in how my content is used either to grow, nurture, or sell.

So I, so I think taking a step back and just realizing, okay, some, some content is going to be attraction and that’s going to help me grow. And sometimes I don’t know what that content is. And so I’ve got to do some testing, but to just have that piece, all of those pieces into your strategy makes such a big difference and then making it very easy, and this is a conversion piece is how do you create that attraction or nurture content?

And get people to actually like get on your email list or actually sell. And the, I mean, the easiest thing that, and one of my favorite things is having a DM automation. I use many chat, but it just works so well with everyone. I’m like, I don’t know. This is a perfect marriage because, because Instagram wants us.

To want our people to engage, but you know, like if we spend, if we are asking our audience to write a three paragraph or even a three line response to something, they, they can only do that once or twice a week on my content, I feel, you know, where I’m like, I’m asking too much, but can they comment one word and then they get something in their DMS.

Yeah, they can. And they’re happy to do that. And so using DM automation to get people on your email list is giant and huge because I can have a post that, that, you know, I posted a few weeks ago and it suddenly starts taking off and it’s, it’s building my email list without me doing anything differently.

And so having that, and then like for me, as I’m thinking about my, my content strategy with Instagram, I’m like, okay, what are going to be, which posts are going to be my email builders? And actually putting that into my strategy instead of like, just hoping that someone’s going to come over, but no, like this post I’m, you know, if I have, I have, um, a couple, I have a ton of freebies, but like, one of them is like a hooks guide is like, how do you build.

A hook for Instagram, and I have 131 hooks. And so it makes it very easy for me to create a piece of content from that. Cause I’m like, here’s 13 hooks you can use today. If you want all 131 comment hooks and I send it to them. And so it delivers. Right. That Instagram, that real people want that and they love it.

And I can give them more when they get on my email list. So really looking at like the piece of art content from a holistic, like strategy view to just know, like some pieces are going to, I’m going to throw people to my email list and then creating that content really strategically and intentionally so that it’s not just, Hey, I’m showing up on Instagram, but no, I have a place where you can go next to get more information.

Bye bye. And to get more communication for me.

Akua: Yeah. Okay. I love, I love that so much. And I love that you brought up many chat because that was something that was huge last year. Like it came out last year and a lot of business owners were using it and, and everybody’s still using it, which I think is great.

But I do think that we. We need to be taking it a step further with our DM automations, um, because I, I’m also guilty of this. I would be like, just comment below for the episode. And I would send them the episode or the blog post and they didn’t read it. Like, and then I just goodbye. And so now with many chat, it has evolved so much since it first came out where you’re obviously able to get people on your list, but you’re able to also nurture and like Rick, like.

overall that connection piece, like you’re able to connect a lot quicker. And so what strategies are you using of like, say when you have, you know, to get people on your list, is it, are you just doing that one step or are you taking it a step further as well within that?

Michelle: Yeah, I think there’s two things that you can do, like anyone could do right now that would like take it to the next step.

And it’s just having like either like a one or two hour reminder. response after you send the link. Like, and that’s, that’s easy, right? That is, will take you 30 seconds to set up, but it’s just a delayed response because the rule is like, once someone DMs you, then you have 24 hours, right? That you can DM them back.

So you can set up just that delayed response. And so you send them the link and then say, Hey, like maybe we have some influencers or something that, you know, they just sent their. Uh, I don’t know, valentine’s outfits or whatever and it’d be like, hey, do you have any questions about sizing that you need help on?

Okay. Well if they respond back And get the right sizing from you. I mean, how much did your conversion rate go up because you help them personally? And they were able to buy it. Right. And, um, the second thing that it’s just also a switch on, on many chat is that you can force a follow instead of like, they will not be delivered your content unless they follow you.

And if you think about it, like, I mean, you can, there’s two ways to think about it. Right. You can be like, well, I just want them to have it. But I’m like, if you’re not following me. You’re missing out on a lot of fun, a lot of education. Right. And so, and also a lot of the people who don’t follow you and are asking for that, asking for the DMS, they probably have the most, the hardest time getting your content, like actually getting it delivered to the inbox, because maybe it goes to the other, you know, the other folder that you never look at or whatever.

But then if you have, if you do have something that just pops off and you go viral, then it. You know, it gets more people to follow you. So it’s not, they just came for the DM automation and then they left. And I also think it qualifies your leads a lot better. So you’re not just getting all of these people that are.

Just, they just want my hooks guide, but you’re getting people who want to stay around and they want to follow me and they want more of my education.

Akua: Yes. I love that. I love how those are two very simple things and simple ways that you can instantly do to really build that connection and also follow up with people because yeah, I, cause I’ve seen other, uh, automations where I’ll come in and I’m like, okay, yes, I want this.

And, um, and people are taking Like literally finding different ways and I love it. I’m like, it’s, I’m like, Oh my gosh. And it makes it so much easier for me. And it also to like, I know I’m not speaking to this specific person right now, but it’s still like, again, it’s still building that connection. Um, when they keep following up and they sent to the, and I’m even, they’re even asking follow up questions.

I’m like, you have to really know your client customer journey very, very well in order to do that. And I think, and, and a lot of people I’ve seen it, I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is because I do feel, um, the connection though. I haven’t. You know really interacted with that person. It’s just the fact that I’m like, okay, like this person obviously knows what they’re doing The content is extremely valuable I want to either invest or follow or any type of any way to just be able to consume their content because I trust it Just based on the automation.

So if you’re listening definitely leaning more into Many chat I think will be so so key. You have a lot of content ever like you’re on a lot of channels

Michelle: And

Akua: so I think, you know, especially just given the recent news and I think a lot of business owners now are going to be leaning more into like, you know, cause I’ve always been one of like, you know, just focus on a platform and then eventually evolve into the next one.

And so for you as you’re on different, how are you maintaining all of that? Without feeling overwhelmed, without burnout.

Michelle: Yeah. If you’re doing this alone, it’s really hard. Like if you were a one man show, like I’m going to tell you, focus on that one platform, friend. Like it is so hard to do all of the things all alone and you will get burned out and then you won’t be able to serve your, you know, depending on what your, your, um, product is, but it makes it really hard.

Um, so I have a team. I also have an agency, so we can help you do all the things, but. I have found that I actually like to be on multiple platforms. Like I like to podcast and that’s a very different feel than me showing up on Instagram. Yes. But if you are going to do this, you have to look at each of the platforms and say, Why?

Like, what’s the goal of me building a podcast? Is it because it’s fun? Is it because it introduces me to people that, you know, that I now have access to, and it builds my network. Is it pushing people to a specific product? Like, what is it? Right. And to really understand how each part fits into your overall strategy.

Um, because it’s, I mean, it’s not easy to create a. Million pieces of content. And when it gets hard, like, is it worth it? You know, and if you don’t have like any clear goals attached to anything, then it makes it, you know, makes it really difficult. And if you’re not tracking. And so I would also say like, you got to start tracking.

I have scorecards for each of my platforms and each of the things that I’m doing that I’m keeping track of every week. So I can see like, okay, this is. This is doing what we want it to do, or this is not, this isn’t doing well. Do we still need to do it? And then there’s always the content planning. So if you know what your goals are for each of your pieces of, uh, with each of your platforms, how can you like, I like to have like a core piece of content.

What’s it like? And that’s YouTube, a blog, a podcast, or a sub stack that you can draw from to. To build out some social content. And that doesn’t always mean like, okay, I’m just taking a podcast. I’m reposting it. It could mean that if you want to do that, but it could mean that you’re like, okay, I talked about this on the podcast.

Now this is the type of content I’m going to post on social media. So it’s cohesive throughout and it can lead to the podcast. So it’s, you know, we don’t just. Throw stuff at the wall, but we’re like very, very intentional of like, how does this fit in and how can I make this stretch to other platforms? So a podcast goes to a blog, which goes to Pinterest, right?

Those things happen. And then, which also goes to my email list. So suddenly I’m on. And then we can take that and even put it on LinkedIn. So now I have like a very clear path and then setting up those systems so that even if you are doing it alone, that it makes it easy for you to hand off when someone can come in and be an assistant or whatever.

So there’s a lot there that I just said, but I think like just having strategy around all of it and then setting yourself up for success by like scheduling time to create content, like.

Akua: Creating

Michelle: content is a marketing function. And so often with Instagram, we’re like, you know, we end up scrolling on there and then we’re like, we say we’re doing business, but we’re not, we’re just scrolling.

And so we have to start taking our social media and our content channels super seriously and say, no, this is a marketing function. And if I do this the right way, it can bring me X, Y, and Z. So making it more. Like putting it in our calendar and doing, doing our due diligence, which we would do any, any other thing.

But somehow social media is just like, well, yeah, we just throw stuff up.

Akua: Yeah. Yeah. But that is such a good mindset shift of like, this is a marketing function. This is another stream that’s going to lead to another, be another stream of revenue for your business. And so we do need to start taking it more seriously because we do find ourselves constantly scrolling and consuming everybody else’s content, which then hinders you creating your own, because then you get caught up in the mindset of the, you know, comparison trap and all these other things that you feel like what you’re creating.

And I love that you just acknowledge like, I am on a lot of channels because I have a big team, but if you’re just starting out, you number one, think of your strategy and to your point of like, it’s okay to be on one, it’s totally okay to be on one platform and as time goes on, and if you want to evolve and you want to add a second platform, okay, well ask yourself why, like, that is such a good thing, because I think a lot of times we’re like, yeah, I just want to be on Pinterest, okay, but why?

And you know what I mean? And I also to now have also started doing, um, the, which is like a storytelling technique and, um, Well, you can use it in other things. I did not create this, but it’s called like the five why, and you just ask why and like five times until you get down to the root issue. Like the real, real reason as to why you want to be on something or like why you want something, your true desire.

And so even asking yourself that of like, Why multiple times until you, and I’m like, okay, then when to get to that real desire, is it worth it or is it not? Um, and ask yourself those types of questions. But I love that if like making strategy more of a priority and we have, and I, the only way that you can do that is because especially when you first start out with something, it’s so easy to forget.

stuff, but it’s like you, when you are wanting to create a habit, you have to be so intentional. And so like setting that time on your calendar. Okay. Where are you? Like, if you’re looking ahead, I’m like, all right, I know I have to prepare a content on this day. Okay. Well on the day before, are you researching?

Are you looking to see what you want to do and what you don’t want to do and all these different types of things. And so it’s like, you have to leave with a lot more intentionality, which is very clear, like a lot of, with everything that you do in order to see the results. That you want to see so I think the overall that this has just been like such a really really good reminder

Michelle: I’m glad because I think people get really stuck there as they like.

Yeah, they they feel so Lost and they feel like they put so much effort towards either Instagram or whatever and that’s like well Did you put the right effort like was it? Was it a scrolling effort or was it like a strategy effort?

Akua: Which one is it? Scrolling. Yeah, but no, like I think that’s a real point though.

I think, I think also too though, a lot of business owners like we’re scrolling, but how are you researching content? Like, do you even have any specific type of research tactics that can like, where you’re like, I’m not scrolling. I know this is for research purposes. We’re like, I have ADHD. So. I’m guilty.

I’ll be like, yeah, I’m here for research. And all of a sudden I’m watching 50 million videos with people’s dogs, Doberman specifically, because I want one. And you know what I mean? Like, I’m like, how did we end up here? How are you researching? Or is there any tactics that like have really made a difference for you?

Michelle: Yeah. So one is just to like. Listen, gotta enjoy Instagram, right? I don’t want to make Instagram such a chore. So even when I am scrolling, to, to think about, like, be an active consumer. So if something stopped me, that isn’t a Doberman or like a cat video or whatever, but like if something actually stops me, I’m paying attention to why did I stop?

So it’d be like, Oh, is that a hook I could use? Is that like, just even just learning from what works on you makes such a big difference, right? Like even in your inbox with your emails, did you, is there something that made you open that you’re like, Oh my gosh, take note

Akua: and

Michelle: start putting that into your content.

So being an active consumer and with Instagram, you can save that content, right? You can save it to one of your folders. And so I would make sure that you’re not just saving everything, but you have different folders. So I have a folder that’s like content ideas. Or, and I have a folder that’s for hooks, right?

Like, so that I can, when I go and I’m like, okay, I need to create content. This is what I want to be about. Then I can open my hooks folder and be like, Oh man, these were great hooks. Is there any way I could translate that to me? Because when I see good hooks, it’s not just about like Instagram, right? It’s about all the other things that I’m interested in.

And so I think that’s one that like we could all do with very little effort is just being more of an active consumer. Um, And then as far as like actual research, I am using different platforms that help me do some like, like keywords anywhere you can, I mean, that’s a lot used in like YouTube and things, but you can see what people are searching for, which I think is really helpful.

I use later, like later media and they have, um, some analytics tools that you can use and that, that I am using to look at my content. Um, I’m also paying really close attention to my analytics. Because they can tell you a lot. For example, the other day, like, we started, I’m posting, I don’t know, can you see my giant calendar in the back?

It’s giant. And I was talking a lot about content planning for like a week or a week and a half. And because I had this free, I had this free download of This huge giant calendar. Anyway, so I was, and so I went to Instagram has like an inspirations tab where you can go and, um, you just go to your professional dashboard and then it’s like inspiration.

You click there and it has like, um, different tabs. It can be like what your people are watching and it’s like similar content to yours or something. And I suddenly was not like all the things that it said were similar to mine. We’re like, We’re like, uh, calendars and like paper planners. And I was like, oof, we might’ve gotten off track.

I was like, I mean, yes, I am talking about content color, but like, I am not, I don’t want you, you know, like I’m, that’s not what my business is. And so I was like, Oh, I’ve got to pay attention to that. That like, when I start going down that it, those keywords, Instagram is paying attention to and is now categorizing me differently.

And so doing that kind of research to be like, okay, how am I seen right now by Instagram? And what things are performing well for me from my audience. So those are all things that I’m thinking about when I’m researching.

Akua: I love that. I think that’s already so helpful. And I think it just really empowers business owners to start moving forward of where to start, because I think I’m also guilty of this.

And I’m like, okay, I’m going to research. I don’t know where to look. Yeah. And so then I immediately go to the reels tab and I’m like scrolling through and I’m like, okay, like I don’t find any inspiration and it’s like 30 minutes. And then you’re exhausted. Like I become exhausted. Like, this is not. What this was, this wasn’t a productive, it wasn’t like what I needed, and now I still feel stuck that I have like no idea what kind of content I want to create.

So I think just like, again, being an active consumer and then also to even doing some keyword research is such a great, great place to start. And looking at your analytics, like what story, like the data, there’s always a story in the data. And so looking at that, and so that is such, such a good helpful point.

No, I think all of that overall is just. It’s very empowering. And so even too, for me, I have also like go to other people’s industries that are different than mine to also see what like they’re doing. Cause I think it just sparks to a lot of innovation and creativity where you’re creating something that’s more original, so then you feel really excited and more confident to, to share about it.

So even like when you said keyword research, like even there’s other, like, even if you’re like, I’m looking for something simple to start in free, like answer the public, right? Like I think it’s answer the public or yeah. Like that’s such a simple way just to start. Putting in some keywords and, and see what works and, and go from there.

And so, yeah,

Michelle: I had, um, I had one of my students reach out to me today and she just was like, you know what I did as I, I, she, she went to chat GPT. She put in the hooks for all of her top performing pieces of content and had chat GPT, analyze it, and then give feedback and ideas. And I’m like, that, my dear, is brilliant.

Akua: Yes. Because

Michelle: you know that that kind of thing, you know, you can take the ones that perform well that you know resonates with your audience. And ChatGPT is awesome for like analyzing things and then giving you some more information. So you never have to. Start with a blank piece of paper. Cause I think that’s the hardest is when you like open your screen and you’re like, I don’t know, what am I supposed to say?

And so when you get stuck, like having these, like I have like a brainstorming list, right? Where like, if I see something that I want to create something similar or, you know, take this idea. And so just not starting from a blank slate. Have it using chat GPT or answer the public or whatever to just get your your juices flowing And then like once you start you’re like, oh I have all these things that I should say.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh I love that so much and that’s such a such a key thing and obviously and for me with what I do Like I believe in like everyday moments can truly help you build your business and so I like I think to have like obviously using that research and then it’s like how can you Apply like use what you already have in order to be able to create content.

Cause I think a lot of times we feel like we have to be a certain way or reach a certain point in order to create content. And it’s like, no, like your everyday life, those moments. Um, and then you also have that strategy where you have that data to where you’re strategically sharing in a way that’s relatable, original, and organic.

Chef’s kiss. Like, truly, like, you will be unstoppable, people. So that’s something I always like to share as well, of like, look at your everyday life too, and like, what lessons you’re learning, what’s popping up for you, and lean into that as well, because I think it’s like, I think there, it’s such a beautiful, like, dynamic, that again, like, where you can just have such a powerful, powerful business, and Instagram can be a powerful growth tool for you.

Now that we’ve talked about so much this whole time, and I have loved every single thing, like I’m so stoked about Instagram. And so when you think about your whole business journey to where you, from where you started, you know, I’m sure like we all started from zero to where you are now. What is one key piece of advice that you want business owners to take away from that?

Michelle: Uh, I would say that you need to go all in. Like, just, I, I, I look back and I look at how much time I wasted doubting myself, like just believing, like, maybe, like, who am I to show up and teach this or to say this or to do this? And there was, I mean, I’ve had all in moments. Like throughout, because I’ve done different businesses for the, from the last like 18 years.

Right. And I feel like I’ve had a, like all in moment with each of them. And that was like the turning point to when like things really made, like took off is because I think we can like, just dink around for a long time. Like just not just being like, I mean, I wish I could grow, but I’m not. You know, but if you don’t put all your energy into it, then it doesn’t feel like such a failure, but I also know how long it can take you to take off when you don’t jump and you just like kind of dip your toe in.

Right. And, and, and so I. Every February I do like a real love challenge where it’s, um, for 30 days or 28 days, I guess, February is only 28. But the whole month I give a training audio and a prompt for what you should post that day. And I talked to someone who did it last year and she went from 300 followers to today, she has 271, 000 followers.

So in one year, and I was like, what, like, what was that? Like what happened? Cause, and she’s like. When I decided I was going to join the real love challenge and I was going all in and I was going to do it. I was going to give myself a year to see what happened. And so that year she spent doing uncomfortable things.

And she’s like, now my Instagram business. Makes the same amount as my full time business, you know, her job, full time job. And she’s like, and this year it’ll surpass it by quite a bit. And it’s all because she decided and committed and there were hard days, there were bad days, right? There were all of those things.

She didn’t go, you know, the first month she went from 300 to a thousand followers, which was a big deal. But like, looking back, you’re like, Oh, now I have 271, 000 like,

Akua: and,

Michelle: and so I just, we just spend so much time on the edge. And we just got to jump, just got to do it.

Akua: Yes. Oh, I love that. Love that so much.

Number one, that just gets me excited. Right? Cause I, there are some things, there are certain things that I am fully committing to in my business. And I’m like, okay, if you fully commit to something, it pays off. And I think that’s just such a good reminder. And no matter what that is, everybody like think about one thing.

And I think especially with Instagram, just do it. Just go ahead. Because I feel like once you start, you write from 300 to a thousand, that’s huge. You know what I mean? And like, no, like I, and I’m not saying I don’t have a thousand followers. I have more than that, but I’m like, give me a thousand more. You know what I mean?

Like that’s a huge, huge thing within the first month. So it’s like. Make the decision of how is it that you want to be at the end of this and do whatever you can to get there. And so I love that, love that story. So I thought, you know, we’re changing things up here in the Unbreakable business. You know, we’re still, I’m still, you know, learning as a podcast host and all that.

So I thought it’d be really fun to do a rapid fire question and you are our first one. So, Ooh, okay. Huh. Okay. No pressure. I’m fine. Let’s go. No pressure. Okay. Are you ready? Okay. Reels or carousels? Uh, reels. Really? Why? Sorry, that’s like not, oh, I’m not supposed to ask these things in a rapid fire.

I’m not good at this. Okay. I’m like, really? Do you want why? Do you want why?

Michelle: I can tell you. I do. I do.

Akua: I want why. Not me being like, so I’m like, yeah, say carousels. What

Michelle: do you want me to say? I know. Okay. Sorry. Why reels? Um, I think that reels, especially if you’re just starting out. It’s much easier to get to take off than a carousel post.

Um, and so like if you’re established and have a carousel post and you’re an established business, you know, your audience then carousels, absolutely. But I think a lot of times carousels, um, yeah, they, you need to know your audience better. You need to be able to tell a story you need to like all of those things, but you can pose a seven second reel and it’s just a much lower like barrier to entry because you can do like.

It can be me walking into a room and walking out, you know, and I can add some value and then I can add that trending audio and I have just a A little bit more ways that I can take off now. That doesn’t mean that I’m not posting carousels, but, um, especially with the algorithm is, is prioritizing shares.

So, and they told us that that’s not just a Instagram by Michelle. That’s most areas saying that. So, and I think that, um, to get a shareable carousel is a little bit harder, you have to know more and you have to have more understanding of your business and your audience. Oh, okay. I love that. I accept.

Akua: I accept that makes a lot of sense.

Michelle: But you could do carousels. No, but I think

Akua: that’s true. But I think that that’s such a, again, like for people who are like, okay, I really want to invest. And I think again, having the most easiest way to start, that’s brilliant. Like you can start off with like, again, a five second reel. And that’s where you’re learning about your audience and learning more about their pain points of that, that you can then can build the confidence.

to then start creating carousel posts. So I think it’s just a good reminder that everything with Instagram is one step at a time. And I think sometimes we, we miss that. And so, sorry. Now back to the rapid fire. We’ll see, we’ll see how fast we go. I like it. Yes. Okay. Best social platform for digital product sales.

Ooh, Instagram. I would say Instagram. Okay, you’ll say Instagram. Makes sense. Okay. Best content type for Instagram account growth? I’m gonna go with Reels. Same reason. Same reason. Okay. Favorite type of content to create?

Michelle: I like creating podcasts. It’s very personal. Yes. Same. I love it. We get to hang out. We get to hang out.

You’re doing your dishes or laundry. I don’t know. You’re driving somewhere and I’m in your ear. I don’t know. That’s fun.

Akua: Oh, yeah. I always take my dog on a walk every day and I put it on, like, listen to some of my favorite podcasts on the walk. So you just feel like your guard’s down, you’re relaxed and some of my best ideas come after listening to a podcast on a walk and I’m like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.

So I’m, I’m right there with you. Um, okay. Using AI for content creation or against it?

Michelle: Um, I say for, I shouldn’t create it for you, but it should be a good starting place. I think that it’s a good. It, I mean, it’s going to be, it’s super helpful if you use it right, but right. If you are, man, if you only create content that AI gives you, uh, you’re not going to win cause it, it doesn’t have you in it.

Akua: No, you can absolutely tell now. It’s like, there’s certain words I’m like, AI, please. Like, I know you have a much more bigger vocabulary than what you’re giving me. You know what I mean? So yeah, 1000%. Okay. So one last fire, rap fire, uh, biggest ick that you’re seeing on social media right now. That gives me the ick.

Michelle: My ick is, and maybe this will be different from everyone else, but I’m real tired of accounts being built on telling me how much money you just made. Mike, show me the value. Give me something that I can do. Don’t, don’t, don’t tell me you made One bazillion dollars just by posting one reel. That’s not true.

That’s not a real thing. And I think it’s, I think it pulls in the vulnerable and, and that also makes me a little bit mad, feel a little icky. So I think like always lead with value, always

Akua: lead with value. Oh my gosh. Love that. Okay. This first time as a rap, as a rapper, y’all, I don’t know how good I did, but I loved the answer.

That was great.

Michelle: That’s great. Yeah.

Akua: So thank you. That was great. Okay. So one final question that we love to end with after every episode is what does having an unbreakable business mean to you?

Michelle: It means that you keep on going, man. Like it, you just keep going. You’ve committed, right? We’ve already, I’ve already.

I’ve done my TED talk about like just committing to the process and keep going and just know that people are going to judge you, you’re going to fail, um, and all of those things are going to happen, but As I always say is the work qualifies you. So the more you show up, the more you do, the better you get, the more experience you have to serve the people that you want to serve.

Because at the end of the day, this isn’t about me teaching Instagram, right? I mean, yes, on the surface. But my core is like, I want to amplify people’s voices. And Instagram is one of my favorite ways to do that. And And to me to say, like, I can help people go from having no one that has ever heard of them to having people that they are like changing their lives.

Like that’s giant. And we’ve never had this option before. We’ve never had the ability to show up in our homes, on our phones, and reach such a mass community. And we have that. And so stop pretending like you don’t want to do it. Stop giving excuses of why you haven’t started and jump, do it. And then, and just know that those things that are hard, they’re going to make you a better business owner, more empathetic, more compassionate, and more ready to serve your audience.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. Love, love, love all with all of that. And then I think that’s just such a good reminder of business owners just to keep going because you are going to fail. You are going to struggle. And at the end of the day, it’s what. Your mission is like what drives you right and yours is amplifying people’s voices like whatever it is that lights you up Lean into that because that’s what’s gonna help you Sustain sustain the changes sustain the pivots, right?

Like there’s so many things that affect us as business owners, right? We just saw it this morning But if you continue to lean into your mission and what it is that you truly believe in your values Your business is going to be here for tomorrow. And so love that so much Michelle and this conversation has been so So much fun.

Thank you so much for being here on the Unbreakable Business Podcast. And so we would love to connect with you. So for people that want to connect with you further, where can they find you?

Michelle: Yes. I mean, Instagram, come hang out with me on Instagram. It’s at I am Michelle Gifford. If you type in Michelle Gifford, you’ll find me.

I also have a podcast. Come, I would like to go on a walk with you. It’d be so great. So you can put me in your ear. So it’s, um, you can search Michelle Gifford or it’s the social strategist on podcasts. And, um, I have a YouTube channel. I’m anywhere you want to be is where I am. Except maybe not on TikTok anymore.

I don’t know. I don’t know. Um, but yes, come over to Instagram. If you, I have a lot of free resources. You can go comment hooks. This is before February. You can come join my real love challenge where I tell you what to post every day. So it makes it super easy. But my whole goal is to get you up and creating on Instagram faster.

So, um, yes, come find me. Oh my gosh. Love that. Thank

Akua: you. Thank you so much, Michelle. And for everybody listening until next time, thanks for tuning into unbreakable business. If you loved today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs a little extra inspiration.

Remember, no matter what life throws your way, you have the power to keep going and your business can be unbreakable too. Until next time, keep building, keep growing, and stay unbreakable.