Building a community fueled by loyalty around your brand with Mike Cassara and Lauren O’Brien

Akua: Today’s podcast episode is so much fun and raw and real, and which is what the Unbreakable Business podcast is all about. Photographers, Mike Casera and Lauren O’Brien of The Vendor Table stopped by the show to talk about how they’ve been able to grow The Vendor Table podcast and the social strategy they implemented to build a thriving and loyal community.

They gave us the exact strategies while also being It’s so transparent about their journey. One thing that I appreciated so much about this conversation is that Mike and Lauren do not hold back. And I found that honesty to be just such a gift, and it was so much fun having them on the show. But don’t take my word for it.

You were absolutely going to see why I loved this episode. So let’s get into it. Welcome to Unbreakable Business, the podcast where we uncover the untold stories behind entrepreneurship. This isn’t about polished success stories. It’s about the sleepless nights, unexpected roadblocks, and unshakable grit that builds businesses that last.

Every week we sit down with entrepreneurs who faced it all, sharing raw, honest conversations about challenges, growth, and the moments that made them unbreakable. Whether you’re just starting out or chasing your next breakthrough. This podcast is your reminder that you have the strength to keep going. Oh, Mike.

Hello, Lauren. How are we doing? Howdy. Howdy.

So excited to have both of you on and like, I just want to give you guys a quick shout out for, thank you so much for having me on the vendor table because it was. It’s such a fun conversation. So we were like, you know, we got to have you two come on and just talk all the things. I don’t know. I don’t know what we’re talking about, but we’re just going to talk about it.

I love that. Love that. That’s my favorite type of interview.

Mike: But we’re great at it.

Akua: Yes. Okay. So I’m really curious, number one, to know about each of you of like, as business owners and like, how essentially did you guys come together to create the Vendor Table Podcast? Because both of you guys are phenomenal wedding photographers.

And he came together to build this amazing podcast and this amazing community. So i’m so curious to know of how that came about

Lauren: Um, it started by I slid into mike’s dms. Oh,

Mike: yeah. Yes, you did Slid into my dms.

Lauren: I slid into his dms In a friendly way, not a weird way, but like it was basically just I admired his work for a long time and we had similar styles at the time It’s a little different now but I just basically complimented him on his work and said I really liked what I was seeing from him and we kind of just gassed each other up a little bit and then He asked me to second shoot for him on a wedding and we We had a great time.

It was really fun. It was really nice for me. I always want to second shoot for photographers that I personally like their style because it’s, I get some insight into how their, their process is. Um, so it was really nice working with Mike. And then we sat down at dinner at a vendor table and I said, um, I’ve always wanted to start a podcast and we kind of bounced ideas back and forth at each other.

And we were just like, So you want to do it? Yeah. And that was the first time we met and that’s

Mike: been going

Lauren: ever since.

Mike: Yeah. I just remember the conversation we had because I asked her to second shoot. We had never met before. We Like shot the shit. It was like a lot of fun, but we like, you know, we just BS.

It was great. Like, and, and we had a great conversation. It was like, this is kind of cool. And we sat down at a vendor table and started, we were eating dinner and she was just like, I’d love to start a podcast. And I was, it was right after, uh, right during COVID I had like, like a blue microphone and I always thought like, you know, it’d be cool to do a podcast or stream or something like that, like, you know, and it never got around to it.

It was just like, I don’t know what I would want to do a podcast on or anything like that. And we were talking at the table about it and we were like, and it was like, you know, industry related stuff, like education and like, I think everybody defaults to education, like, you know, like it’s like we’ve been in the business a long time, everyone kind of defaults to education.

Right. But I was just like, yeah, education is cool. But like, I, like, I don’t feel like we’re, yeah, I don’t want to be like an educator. I want to like. Have fun and talk about trends and like, you know, what’s cool? What’s not cool? And you know we we talked about and I still like we then I think we didn’t see each other for a little bit And I think you DM me and you were like, so you still want to do it?

And I was like, I was like, yeah, I was like this sounds cool, right? Yeah, but I told her I was like I don’t want to half ass this

Lauren: So we got a full ass

Mike: this. I’m not a, I’m not a half ass guy. Like, I’m like your full ass everything. So.

Lauren: Say it with your whole ass.

Mike: Exactly. Exactly. That’s right. So, so it’s the truth though.

I didn’t want to half ass it. I didn’t want to like just do it virtually or anything like that. I was just like. I wanted to like I saw the most successful podcast had clips and social media and I have a background in social media marketing. Like I had a job, um, like that was like eight years doing social media marketing.

Like when like Facebook was in its infancy and Instagram started coming up. So I saw the rise of it and I was like, I, I think if we did this right. And it hit well, like, you know, we, we need to have the clips, we need to have the, the social media to pump up the podcast. So, I knew of one person that could do it, it was Matt, who’s right over there, um, who Hey Matt!

I’d seen him record podcasts, and I was just like, you know, uh, I asked like if he had availability, so he’s like, yeah. We then got studio time, we came and recorded, uh, two episodes the first time. First one’s trash. Don’t listen to it. Like, it’s horrible. Like, horrible episode. We’re gonna link that in the show notes.

Lauren: No. It’s just so boring.

Mike: Like, the first episode was like, talking about us. Like, our journey. All that stuff. It was like, no one wants to hear that. Like, no one wants to hear that. But the second episode was all about, I’ll never forget this, the trends we love and hate. Mostly hate and that’s where we found our footing it was like the banter back and forth was quick It was just funny conversations We had like some really good clips out of that episode that we still like kind of circulates to this day And we were like that was pretty good.

Like let’s you know, alright So we had enough that we could like go out and see how we do So we started, you know an Instagram page and we did all that and we then recorded I think another three or four episodes so we had six episodes and we’re like All right, let’s see how this goes, right? Six episodes.

Um, probably call it after that. Well, here we are, uh, like 80 something episodes later, like just like one of the, the, the names in the wedding industry for podcasts. And we’re like, never thought that it would come to this level, but it all started at a vendor table. It really did. So.

Lauren: And it’s so funny too, because like the way we started it, and we knew we didn’t want to do just like, something everyone has done already, um, but one of the reasons we started it was because, like, in, like, bridal Facebook groups, there’s always so many people trashing their vendors all the time with no opportunity to, like, give their side of the story.

So, we, like, kind of took that and ran with it, just being like, this is what it is like being a wedding vendor. The real parts about it, like some things we love, some things we absolutely can’t fucking stand. And we wanted that to really be, like, something that resonated with our vendor friends. So, that’s, uh

Mike: Be true, be like, talk, talk the shit, sling it at times.

gripe on things but also like hype people up. That’s, that’s all stuff we wanted to do. We didn’t want to just be the hater podcast. Because I think a lot of people. I think

Akua: the vendor’s hate podcast is much better.

Mike: Right? Like, because I, I think like a lot of people see our clips and sometimes our hot takes are the ones that like go viral.

Yeah. And everyone’s like. It’s just those two hate knots. It’s like beard and tattoos hate knot things. Like, legit, like, I’ve seen those threads.

Lauren: They just think that we hate everything.

Mike: And I’m like, I’m like, some of our most viral clips are also like, you know, like sympathetic and also give advice and like, and our education base.

And like, we, that’s why we have episodes that are, you know, wedding horror stories. And then we have like, you know, like set your business goals. Like, you know, like we. We’re not just like locked into being a hater podcast or like a hot takes podcast. We’re really out to cover all facets and have

Lauren: it like people feel seen.

Yeah, like there’s there’s one clip of me just like at the Right in the middle of like our peak season. I look a mess. I’m wearing like a hoodie. My hair is like And mike’s asking me how i’m doing and i’m just like Not great, Bessie.

Mike: Not great. It’s one of our most viral clips, by the way. Not

Lauren: great. Because we also, as business owners, like, have this, like, pressure to constantly look like we’re crushing it.

Like, we’re killing it and doing great. And then there’s the Laurens of the universe that are just like I’m just trying to survive. I’m just trying to keep my head above water today. It’s

Mike: always okay to be vulnerable. Yeah. That’s like what we, I, I think people see in us a lot more now is like, Hey, like they’re just, they’re real.

And most of our DMs and most of our messages, like when people reach out and they like compliment us, it’s like, you guys are just so real. And like, that’s the biggest compliment to us. Like, yeah.

Akua: And I love that so much. Like you guys just said so many things within that number one. I just love that you both were kind of like, let’s just do it.

I think sometimes as business owners, we just overcomplicate things so much. And I think we can, it’s easy to forget when we first started our business of like, we just did it. Like everything is new to us until it isn’t. And so I think it’s again, just like you saw something and you’re like, let’s just see how it goes.

The first episode, trash! The second episode. She’s

Mike: not wrong.

Akua: Not wrong, it’s terrible. And second episode, where you’re sharing your true thoughts, and I love like, that’s what makes it so fun. Like even just being as a guest, like that raw ness, that realness. And truly creating that space where people can really just let their hair down, and just share, share, share.

Who they really are and I love how you even mentioned of like We are sharing our side of the stories as vendors because you do you do see Horror stories all the time and you don’t ever hear the other side And I think I I I personally appreciate that as a business owner, even though i’m not in the wedding industry I I love how you guys have really leaned into what works for you to be able to provide that education but also to of just like This is what it truly takes to run a business and like this is what we’re currently going through and you’re inviting people into that, into that journey with you, which I think is like so beautiful.

And that was really cheesy. It’s so beautiful.

Lauren: I mean, it is like a derailed train car a little bit. Don’t know necessarily how fun it is for the, the passenger.

Mike: You know, we, we, we, we try to keep things upright at times, like as business owners, like, you know, There’s highs and lows, right? There’s always a high and low of business.

It’s just like, personal life, same thing. Like, so, why not show the lows at times? Like, you know, a lot of, I see it all the time. Business coaches, photographers, that are like, you can make 100K and you can make, you know, six figures and all that stuff. And I’m like, And all

Lauren: you have to do is

Mike: follow these steps.

And I’m like, At the same point like I get that and like I get that’s like, you know the entrepreneurial spirit But like you don’t talk about the backbreaking that you have I have to do to get to that level Like there are sleepless nights. There are you know, like worries like where’s your income coming from if you’re you’re not doing well, like We talk about that on the show.

It’s like, we talk about like, Hey, like, you know, things might be tight. Like going through the wedding gap, like what, you know, clients aren’t booking quick enough. Like, what do you do to compliment that? Like, these are things that like a lot of other podcasts weren’t doing. And what’s funny is, since we’ve kind of come about it, I’ve seen that a little bit more and more.

So, um, maybe that’s, maybe we started a little vulnerable trend, and I kind of like that.

Lauren: I support it. I want more people to be outwardly vulnerable. Not necessarily, like, keying into it, and like, having that be their whole thing. But, it’s okay to like, show a crack or two. You know? It’s not like, pretending that everybody is going to do it.

Always thrive at all times as a business owner because chances are you won’t at certain points So I just think that that vulnerability and like letting our people the people who listen to us know that we are right there In their position at sometimes given our our businesses like it helps

Akua: Yeah 1, 000 percent and a question I want to add to that is because you guys do talk about vulnerability and I feel like That is a word that we throw around a lot as entrepreneurs, but I think it’s so different like we say it But I think a lot of us still struggle to be vulnerable I think a lot of times we have these Misconceptions that we have to be a certain way in order to be vulnerable and I don’t think that’s the case For both of you.

How have you guys? Continued to show up even in those harder moments and still show up for your community to be like

Mike: That’s a great question. It’s, it’s really, you know, it’s putting in the work. Um, you know, it’s a lot of people don’t see the behind the scenes of like what we’re trying to do is, you know, grind it out.

And, and, you know, people don’t realize like, we’re like, this has become a business and like, I don’t, I don’t think we show the vulnerability of this, of what we’re doing behind the scenes. Oh

Lauren: yeah.

Mike: Like, ever.

Lauren: This one in particular.

Mike: Like, I

Lauren: don’t have my shit together on like the regular basis, but Mike is like, this is the thing that will break him.

Mike: I look at analytics, I look at numbers, I look at market trends, I look at all that stuff. Like, like, I have a social media background. So I look at like, okay, how’s this performing? Or like, you know, Now it’s it’s like as this grew it was like, okay hooks and like how do we hook on clips? How do we do this stuff?

And those are all kind of like worries Like we come out of an episode sometimes after we record and I’m like, that’s a great episode We have like like six clips in there that we could use or we come out sometimes and I don’t know what that’s gonna hit You know, like I’d like I don’t know if this is good So, you know and we’re putting our time and our money into it and like when it’s an investment obviously but it’s it’s It’s hard work and like any business if you’re putting in the time and you’re putting in the effort Like you will succeed in it in some way, shape or form.

Maybe it’s, maybe it won’t be a financial success, but maybe it like builds you up in a different way. So that’s something that like I always try to like preach is like, maybe this will make me better in a different way. Like maybe on my photography business, maybe in life, like, I don’t know. So like, we just try to keep it, keep it real more than anything else.

And like, I think our community, like, because we show up every week. And we’re posting, like, every other day, and keeping it consistent. People tune in, every week, and so I think they can rely on

Lauren: that. We not in the comments, but we respond to every message that gets sent to us. And we also have each other’s backs.

So, like, we’re not, we, we fuck around with each other constantly on the podcast, but, like, Mike and I are very good friends. And when one of us is down, the other one’s got our back. So, it’s You know, we have a good business partnership between us. Um, Where we know that, like, even if we get frustrated with each other, like, maybe an hour or two later, we’ll be like, sorry.

Ha ha

Mike: ha! 100%. My bad. We have, we have mentee bees here. We have some

Lauren: mentee bees. Currently having one is fine.

Mike: Yeah. Fine. Everything’s fine.

Lauren: Everything’s fine. Everything’s great.

Mike: Like everything’s on fire around us. It’s fine.

Akua: Is that mean?

Mike: You

Akua: just sit there at the table? It’s that mean.

Mike: It’s 100 percent that mean.

Akua: But I got my buddy here. We’re in this together.

Mike: Thumbs up.

Akua: Oh my gosh. I love that though. But even to like just seeing both of you interact, like you guys do compliment each other very well and just bounce off of each other, which I think is just like such a beautiful thing. Well our birthdays are a week apart.

Are they? When are your birthdays?

Mike: March 31st, right? And I’m April 7th. So it’s like, we’re a week apart. We’re both Aries. But we’re polar opposites personality wise. Like, so, like, I think that’s what works in terms of, like, a lot of, a lot of things. Like, she’s like, you know, Huh, everybody loves Lauren. But

Lauren: It’s not to love.

It’s true. You know,

Mike: like, I’m a little bit more, not to say conservative, but like, I’m like I’ll say some shit when I, like, want to say something. She just, she can let it fly at times, so.

Lauren: I have no filter.

Mike: So. Like I’m a little bit more organized. She’s a little bit more off the cuff So it’s like like we complement each other on the show really well like I kind of try to I try to like drive the combo like on the points and keep points and everything like that keep The conversation going and she like provides like really the fuel behind it.

So it’s like, you know, it’s it’s you gotta effortless now Yeah, you gotta have that because I think If you’re doing a show with somebody and you just don’t click and you don’t mesh, like it’s it’s what’s the point? It

Lauren: sucks the soul out of it. There’s no

Mike: Yeah, that’s why it’s like we’re both photographers.

We’re both wedding photographers. We’ve both been in it for a long time We both have similar style in terms of like our photographic style and everything like that But we do things differently

Lauren: and we sometimes have very different opinions. So

Mike: yeah people love when we when we love when we

Lauren: argue

Mike: Love when we argue.

It’s our favorite clip Like it’s it’s legitimately everybody’s favorite clips is when we argue about something So it’s like it’s great and and to be honest with you though. We don’t really have different opinions from each other quite often.

Lauren: For the most part, yeah.

Mike: It’s like usually we agree like 80, maybe 75 percent of the time.

So it’s kind of cool. Yeah. I don’t know. It works though.

Akua: Whatever it is, it’s working. Yeah. We’ll keep you guys. And we’re just leaning into it. Yeah. I think how do you guys embrace when things are going tough? Like especially like if you guys, or have you guys had those moments where like you guys aren’t fully getting along or seeing eye to eye on the vision of the show and whatnot.

How do you guys navigate that to where like, again, you guys are still showing up to. produce something of high quality.

Lauren: That’s only happened maybe like once or

Mike: twice. Once or twice. Yeah, yeah.

Lauren: We’re generally on the same page for the most part, but when we have had, like, buttheads, we give each other a little bit of space.

Mike: Yeah.

Lauren: And because then we can just, like, take a moment to see how we’re both approaching it and then go back to it with fresh eyes. Um, but again, it, it does not happen often. Like I said, once or twice maybe? Yeah, like sometimes it’s,

Mike: yeah, sometimes it’s on, like, a clip or something like that, like. Like, uh, there’s one like, I, I, I want to post this clip and, and she’d be like, I don’t, I don’t like that one.

I don’t like what we said. Like, it’s just not, I, I don’t think if it’s out of, it’s out of context. Like you, there’s no context behind it. So people are going to hate it and kind of things. And like, I’m like, Oh, I think that one would do well. But like, I respect her enough that like, say if one of us disagree on something, like, uh, I’m not going to push it out just because like, I want it.

Like, it’s, it’s a 50, 50 thing. So we’re like, You know, we have to both be behind something and I think that’s why it’s successful because it’s like one doesn’t overpower the other one Like sometimes like if I take over like there’s been an episode where we trashed because we’re talking like wedding timelines I took over the episode because I’m very passionate about my timeline Very passionate

Akua: I gathered

Mike: that I’m like Very passionate about my timeline Come on Akua, I’m like, I love this Okay, I’m very He loves

Lauren: to talk

Mike: But I love, like, but I dominated the conversation and we, I listened, we listened to the episode.

I was like, listen, this is not going to hit. And like, she was like, I think the same thing. So we scrapped the episode, you know, and sometimes you got to do that. And like, you know,

Lauren: we’ve canned like three episodes, three or

Mike: three or four episodes, stuff like that. So it’s like, they’ll never see the light of day, you know, but I think you need to, if you’re going to have a good partnership with somebody, you have to respect.

Their opinion, because if you don’t as a business owner, you’re just going to butt heads.

Lauren: Yeah, it’s going to get really volatile. Really? Yeah. And

Mike: like, you’re going to have like, it’s going to get nasty. And it’s when business comes in and money and all that stuff, like you don’t want that. It’s like, so, you know, we try to just compliment each other, listen to each other, give each other space when we’re not like, when we’re not seeing eye to eye and then like kind of circle back to it and everything like that.

And like, usually it’s like. It’s been working for almost two years now. We’re also both

Lauren: very passionate and stubborn. So it doesn’t help. Like, we’re different in so many ways, but those are two things. Passionate, driven, and also incredibly stubborn. So, like, the two of us will And then we both just go, okay, that’s enough for today.

We’re going to table this and then come back to it. And then it’s like, when we get on the phone, we’re like, I’m sorry, I’m sorry. All right. Let’s talk business. Let’s do the thing.

Mike: Wow. A hundred percent. You got it. You got to be at times because otherwise I don’t think you’d succeed as a. Yeah, like, like, and this is a business to us, like co business owners.

Yeah,

Akua: absolutely. And I think you guys said so many key things that I think are just so important for business owners to have in general, whether you have a partner or not. I think conflict resolution is so important because even too, if you have like a client that’s not, you’re not seeing eye to eye on, or you know, you have to figure out how that navigate that whole situation.

Like, I think a lot of what you both have shared of just like, Okay, even when things we don’t align on things, we will still figure this out in a very healthy, respectful way. And I think that’s just something that we as businesses and also adults should really just take and carry with us. Cause I think it’s, I think like we have, uh, we had an episode with, uh, Daniel Bayer Jackson talking about conflict resolution and how like a lot of us as adults just don’t have that.

And I think it’s so key. Um, Whether you have a partnership or not as a successful as a business owner Is something I think is so important. So I love that you guys touched on that one thing I’m really curious about is I like I love that you guys talk about trending stuff I feel like with the pockets you’ve created I feel like you lead with like social first.

And I think that’s something that a lot of podcasts, even including myself on this show, like need to lean more into. So how are you guys doing that where like, okay, number one, find trending topics to talk about, things that you’re passionate about, right? Because not all trends apply, right? There could be trends that you’re like, this, I don’t care for it.

And so finding the right trends to talk about. What strategy you lean to with like creating a social first kind of show to where like that’s really helped with your growth, like your social strategy, like what does that look like for you guys?

Mike: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a great question. Like one being in the industry, like being wedding photographers.

We do, she does like 20 plus weddings a year. I do 30 plus weddings a year. So we’re, we’re on the front lines. We see what’s trending well, what people want. We listen to our clients, what they want, everything like that. So that’s first and foremost. Seeing it first hand like, Oh, this might be like the year of like, you know, high centerpieces or like, okay, like, like, uh, like DIY is like taking over or something like that, or like a color palettes really popular.

Um, so we pay attention to that stuff now even more because of the show. But also, um, you know, social media is a big reason, like, that you can find trends, like, you can see there’s this influx of what we call bride influencers that are out on Instagram, TikTok, and they’re like going out there and they have hundreds of thousands of followers and they’re like, you know, I did this for my wedding and it was like so good and it was like so amazing and I love this so much.

And then all of a sudden, trend or celebrity culture, okay? Like, you see celebrities come out and You know, you had Sofia Richie a few years ago with like her, like, editorial photos, like Millie Bobby Brown just got like these gorgeous photos taken. Like there’s so many celebrity weddings that they influence popular culture, which then trickles down into the wedding industry.

So we pay attention to that stuff and we take notes, we throw them in, we have a shared note file on our phone. Oh my God. The

Lauren: notes app. She’s like, don’t get me started.

Mike: If we see something, we write it down or we link it. And like, you know, and then like you have the websites, like the popular ones, you got like WeddingWire, The Knot, like, um, LoveRelate, like all of them, you know, they’ve been around forever.

They, they do trends, like blog posts, like I feel like every quarter. So, you know, I, I subscribe to those mailing lists. I just check out what people are talking about. And we write it all down. We compile it. And now since we’ve grown, we also have the resource of our followers. Our followers send us so much

Lauren: content.

Or, you know, they’ll, they start messaging us. I mean, this is, it’s been going on for a while now. Like they start emailing us, messaging us. They’ll tell us stories. They’ll ask for advice on a certain situation that we’ve never heard of. You know, some, some kind of situation. Now we’re reaching out to our like partner page and being like, Hey, from a legal perspective, what the fuck?

Is this

Mike: legal? Legal? Like, what

Lauren: is this? And then, you know, we, we start just collecting all of this. And we hardly have to lift a finger for it anymore, and part of it is that we are entrenched in the industry. We do these events every weekend in the summers, and we’re seeing it firsthand. So even if like, it’s not like a topic, There’s a thing almost in every wedding that we can key onto and just be like, you know what that might be good to talk about

Mike: Yeah, we had so many submissions too.

So it’s like

Lauren: like it’s never ending

Mike: Yeah, it’s like content

Lauren: to consume

Mike: when we didn’t have that though. It was really we were it was tough we were trying to find it

Lauren: actually that first day that we sat down and At the at the vendor table and came up with the inception of this idea We in the notes app I was like, all right, I got this one this one this one This is what we came up with like 50 different topics just to talk about immediately so

Mike: Yeah And there are things that like are very trendy that we don’t like and there are things that are very trendy that we do like so we try to cue in on certain things and Um, the other, like, like, but yeah, I think now, now it’s a lot of user content is, is sent to us.

Like there’s always TikTok is, TikTok is never ending sea of like content. I’m going to

Lauren: miss that app. Yeah.

Mike: If it’s gone, we’re recording in January. It’s not gone yet. But if it, if it does end. I’ll be a little sad. A

Akua: little sad.

Mike: Um, because it is just a sea of like, God, content trash. And which makes great for a show that talks about content trash.

Akua: Oh my gosh. I love that though. And I think again, like even for me, just even of, even with independent business podcast, just really leaning more, number one. immersing yourself more in your work, number one, and also to just really thinking strategically of how better ways to even research. I love, though, that the fact that you have so many followers that are so engaged that they’re sending you stuff to talk about.

honestly build this engaging community that genuinely cares what you have to say to where they’re pretty much doing the work for you and giving you content of what to create. Like the

Lauren: strategy?

Mike: That’s the best question I think we’ve ever Really? Because there was strategy behind that. Yeah. Like, and, and a lot of people don’t probably understand that.

There’s a reason like our Instagram, like our reels averaged anywhere from 50 to 100, 000 views. is because we built a community based around giving people a voice. So, I always say, like, when we post, like, what’s your take? What’s your opinion? Send us your opinion. DM us. How do you feel about this? All right, and when we answer back, people feel the need to stay because hey, they’re listening to me.

Oh, I might get my question on the show. Oh, like, you know, they’re funny. Like I’m gonna stick around because they answer sarcastically or something like that. So we built it from the strength of, hey, address the audience. And bring them into the conversation make them feel like they have a seat at the vendor table Because that’s what it’s all about Like we’re welcoming to our table like come and sit with us come and chat with us And

Lauren: and we’ve always said like we encourage people to disagree with us.

Yeah, if they if they feel very strongly about their opinion versus ours we want to hear your side because you could very well change our opinion

Mike: yeah and we’ve had that a few times like happen where we’re like you know there was a uh a big trend it was like the blurry photo trend which is still terrible um but at the same point At the same point, um, very popular.

Like, people were like, using motion blur as a tactic. And, you know, we posted a clip, went viral, 3 million views, of like, we just don’t understand the trend, and blah blah blah, and it’s terrible, and got us a great deal amount of followers that agreed with us. And it also brought in followers that disagreed with us, but they stayed.

And they saw like other points that they did agree on. So we brought them in to have a conversation with us. And, um, I have this marketing tactic that when we started the podcast, I always said, all right, if we’re going to post something that I want the 70 percent of the audience to agree with us and 30 percent to disagree.

Because what is that 30 percent that disagree with do

Lauren: engage.

Mike: That’s it. So that’s our, that’s our strategy. You want our strategy one on one. That’s it right there.

Akua: Yeah. That’s brilliant. That was when I was like, Oh my God, they’re like literally doing the work for you. And I’m like, I. That is phenomenal.

And like, it’s very clear that everything that you’ve done on the show has, like, you’re, it’s intentional. Like, it leads with a lot of intention, which I love. And so, what other ways have you grown the show? Because two years, because podcasting is a long game. Like some people, it take, it’s taken them five years, you know what I mean, ten years to get to their show.

And you guys have done it in two, right? Like, what strategies have you led into as well that has, like, really boosted your growth?

Mike: Number one, I say this all the time, video, video, if you’re recording, if you’re making a podcast in 2025 and you’re not incorporating video, you are missing out. That’s the number one tool you could use to elevate your brand.

And we did it from the get go, um, like right from the get go. That’s why I wanted to do clips. And like, yeah, I said to her, I was like, we’re not half assing this because that’s the way you get front facing, you get front facing content through social media. So that’s how you grow quickly. Like you could anyone could start a podcast.

You just need a microphone. That’s it You could do garage band on your computer. Like that’s all you need like it’s very easy to do But will people listen to it be a lot harder a lot harder and I see the podcasts that are really good I’ve listened to some that were Incredible incredible and some that are no longer existing that I’m upset.

They’re gone, but they didn’t have the marketing knowledge to keep it going and how I think you’re going to, if you’re going to grow a podcast or you want to grow a podcast in 2025, you have to incorporate video, have to.

Akua: I feel like a lot. And I feel like a lot of us, like a lot of people are still, they’re not prioritizing video.

Like they have it. Cause like some of us, like some people who have shows, like they’re getting mainly all of their downloads from audio. But they don’t realize how video can help still boost that. It just completely

Lauren: elevates. It

Akua: completely elevates it. Like, yeah, like, instead of treating it as two separate entities, it’s still one, right?

Like, and so using video to still leverage to get more downloads for your show, help grow your show. And so would you guys agree with that or no? Or like, what are your thoughts?

Lauren: I definitely agree with it and like one of the things that I can say for certain is like, let’s say one of the, one of mine and Mike’s favorite podcasts, The Basement Yard.

Yes. Right? You could listen to it and still, and think it’s hilarious, but if you see their expressions when they’re talking to each other, it just makes it that much better. Um, like you could listen to me and Mike, but so many people, a lot of people acknowledge and recognize that my facial expressions in particularly are very,

Mike: Oh, it’s so funny.

Like, like, she’s got, like, she’s very animated. Like, because she sits like very prim and proper and she sits like this. And like, and people are like, she’s got excellent posture. And I’m very animated with my hands. So yeah. And, but her facial expressions, like send me sometimes and like send the audience too.

So it’s just like, if we, if you didn’t have video, you’d never be able to see it. Yeah. So that’s.

Lauren: It’s part of the experience I feel like again like you could be like, you know Walking around your house and listening to the podcast and never see like the actual but so many people send us like videos of them Like watching us on their TV screens, like they’ll put the podcast on their TV and just watch us which makes me feel like Honestly Why not?

Put me on your living room TV. Oh my

Mike: god, I hate you so much. I hate you so much for

Akua: that. Oh my gosh, I love both of you. Movie star moment. So can he, girl. Yes, absolutely.

Lauren: Mike’s just like, He’s

Akua: just like,

Lauren: I hate you. I’m

Akua: definitely

Mike: fighting my G for it. Oh my gosh, I, you know, one,

Akua: this literally just popped into my mind.

I really want to talk about some hot takes. What hot takes do you guys have? Cause I mean, that’s what your show is like heavily about. So bring some of the vendor table over to the independent business podcast. What are some hot takes in regards to entrepreneurship this year that you’re like, yay or nay?

Mike: Entrepreneurship, especially. You got any?

Akua: And also do wedding, like whatever you’re seeing, whatever you’re seeing out. Like Leah, let’s not limit ourselves.

Lauren: Um, hot take. I just feel like I’ve had enough of the love and light bullshit in your business. Like I’m done with the love and light and.

Mike: Everything is so good, and that’s actually the tagline I’m writing.

Everything

Lauren: is so great, and blah blah blah, like, we get it. You’re, we get it. You’re doing

Mike: so good. Biggest hot take for me, business wise, six figures isn’t a lot of money anymore.

Lauren: Mmm. That part. Clock it.

Mike: Yes. Six figures isn’t a lot of money

Lauren: anymore. Six figures is standard now. Yep.

Mike: So, you know, if you’re a business coach, And you’re out there and you’re like, uh, like this is how you can make six figures.

Like.

Lauren: That’s what you need in order to survive in New York. 100%. Yes.

Mike: Like, we’re in the most expensive market in the world. Yeah. Like, okay, six figures? Like, you, you, you can’t breathe unless you’re making six figures. My

Lauren: first year as an entrepreneur, full time, I made six figures. And that’s without HoneyBook.

Like, with, that was without a CRM. That was out, I was shocked when I did it, but at the same time, it’s That’s what you need. Yeah, so you get it, you know, like you you push Which sounds crazy, but it just is like when when you’re relying on Yourself to sell you have to yeah.

Mike: Yeah.

Lauren: Yeah, it’s it’s fight or flight at that point

Mike: 100 percent I just I I I see these ads that get run by people and like I don’t think we’ve ever mentioned that on the show before but I think if like You’re trying to be a coach or an entrepreneur coach or something like that and you’re like trying to tell people you can make six figures like Like the you should like you should be making six figures Yeah like you know and I just think six figures in a lot of money anymore and if like you’re like trying to sell people on taking Your program because they can make six figures like they should be working their ass off behind the scenes To try to work towards that already like my goal.

I want seven figures. Yeah, like if somebody’s trying you could make seven figures You know what? I’ll take that class because that’s, you know, that’s a dream big goal. Like, but it’s, it’s not 2008 anymore, you know, six figures and a lot of money. So, you know, big biggest, that’s my biggest entrepreneur hot take.

Wedding hot take. Wait, wait, wait. How much time

Lauren: you got?

Mike: Wedding hot take. I, I mean, I agree a lot with our audience. Like I think wedding parties could go. I think that get them out of here. I think like formalities in general.

Lauren: Get rid of them.

Mike: In general.

Lauren: Yes.

Mike: Like the given away the, the bride, like, like the old customs, the, the flower and garter, the, all that stuff.

is just unnecessary trash now. Like you don’t need to make your parents happy when you get married, make your freaking self happy. It’s about you. It’s your day. It’s the one day in your life that you could be selfish and do what you want to do. So do it. Don’t worry about tradition. Like, you want to wear a red wedding dress?

Wear a red wedding dress. You know? You want to wear a purple tux? Wear a purple tux. No one’s stopping you anymore. There’s, I don’t think there’s any such thing as tradition. That you have to keep tradition. Um, so, just do the wedding the way you want to do it. And, and that’s what I, that’s my biggest hot take.

And I think that’s a general hot take. You know, but Do the wedding whatever way you want.

Lauren: Oh, there’s gonna be some idiot in the comments that’s like, I fucking hate this guy!

Mike: Right ahead, buddy.

Lauren: Everything he said was bullshit!

Mike: Got a lot of them in my DMs. Don’t

Akua: listen

Lauren: to this clown! Oh my

Akua: gosh, I love, I love both of those hot takes, all of the hot takes, honestly, that’s so true, I think, to your point of, Like we’ve heard that so many times of like making six figures and I feel like that’s it’s to your point It’s not it’s not 2008 anymore.

It’s so true. It’s so true You know what? I think my hat trend is is like I’m really tired of people not bringing receipts Like I want to see what’s going on back there. I’m gonna see I wanna know Yeah, and if you are not showing it to me, honey, then we will we have nothing to discuss You know what? I mean?

Like that’s that’s me and I think A lot of us we do say a lot of like you see in the industry of like a lot of here are the steps to do this and that and I’m like I need to say that your process is repeatable and provable. Like it’s gonna work for me.

Lauren: Show me the data. Show

Akua: me the data. Like that’s what it is.

I think a lot of us need to lean more into data and like showing the numbers. Um, and I think a lot of the times when. We’re being marketed to

Lauren: Baby, this is America. We don’t do that here. I know!

Like, what do you mean? What do you mean, science and research? The fuck?

Akua: Yeah. Oh my goodness. This is track, right? So yeah, it’s, that’s kind of I definitely agree with all those hot takes. And so I want to hear how you guys deal with trolls. I finally got a troll. For the first time. Oh, did you? In my life. I’m so excited for you.

My friends were like, you finally, I sent it to Isha, I sent it to her too, they were like, you finally made it. I said, what? Like this person. This is a canon event. I know. Somebody saw something, a video of me, searched me on Instagram. and sent me a message. Can

Lauren: you read it out loud? Uh, .

Akua: Let’s live on the edge a little bit.

Can I ? They literally searched, like sent me this of like, I’m sick of looking at your gap tooth

I’m sick of looking at your gap. Tooth, uh, reading scripts like a word. You suck. I was like, Jack, who hurt you? Like, literally sought me out. I was like, you were unwell. And yeah, so. This is a lot about. Other people. And I thought it was funny, like I literally sent it to my family and they were like, you’ve made it.

And I sent it to my friends, they were like, that is a badge of honor. And I was like, thanks. That is a fact.

Mike: You know you make it when you have a hater.

Akua: Yeah, I know. But for you guys who get, like you guys talk about hot topics, things that are trending, all of that type of stuff. And so, and you guys absolutely have people who disagree, or maybe even take it a step further, I’m sure you guys have had.

And so how do you guys deal with that? Like, I think that’s something that we as business owners, we need to really remember that people are always going to say stuff. And so like, number one, that’s for me. I was like, I have to be doing something right. The fact that you sought me out, honey, I have to be doing something right.

And so for you guys, how do you guys deal with that? Especially when it’s coming, I just had one. I know y’all have had more.

Lauren: We have loyal trolls.

Mike: One in our comments right now.

Lauren: We have loyal trolls that follow us. Specifically to just be negative.

Mike: Yeah,

Lauren: and I don’t care because you’re engaging You’re just you’re listen, you may hate us.

But every time you comment you’re furthering my algorithm like you’re doing the Lord’s work

Mike: They probably sat on that video like 500 times. So I’m like, thanks for the 500 views. Yeah, like honestly The like, like I said before, like we want 30% to disagree with us. You wanna come at us like for something nasty,

Lauren: the way we look or like

Mike: that, that’s the only time we we’ve ever had to ban people is like, you wanna come after appearance?

Look like our character, character, anything like that. You like, you know, like you send us hate mail. We’ve never gotten hate mail, but if like anybody has ever

Lauren: no we did

Mike: Yeah, oh, yeah, we did that.

Lauren: We had one guy like really went hard at us for a while Remember, he called us pathetic. Yeah, you spent like an hour with that guy.

Oh,

Mike: yeah. I forgot about that guy.

Lauren: Whoever he was That man was committed.

Mike: Yes. I think his name was Carl.

Lauren: We, we bring up Carl like every so often just as a reminder because Carl was one of our very intense trolls. Um, he was just, you know, He was just nasty. He was

Mike: just nasty. Like you, you could, listen, disagree with us and we welcome Disagreeing with us you like you want to DM us and say like hey like I don’t agree with that point I see where you’re coming from but like totally cool

Lauren: even if they’re very passionately driven Yeah response like we’re not gonna like turn tail and be like, oh my god, you know Or we’re not gonna like flay you alive for disagreeing with us at all either Um, but when you’re, when they’re nasty, and just to be nasty, I just fucking ignore it, I don’t care.

Yeah, that’s, that’s, when

Mike: they’re nasty, like, it’s, like, or, like, they come after your pers, like, personal. Things yeah, it’s an easy block. Yeah, like that’s it. Like just you’re gone. Like you got

Lauren: nothing.

Mike: Yeah, like that’s it Like

Lauren: nothing out of it. Like I don’t believe any of the nasty things that people say like I don’t embody that Yeah And it doesn’t Mike and I have very thick skin Like you kind of have to be

Mike: if you want to be successful as a content creator in the industry You’re gonna get your haters You gotta have thick skin.

Because not everyone’s gonna be like, Oh my god, you’re so great! We love you! Oh my god! Like, you know, like, there’s, uh, we were talking Disney movies before the episode, like, and everything like that, but like, like, Wreck It Ralph, the new Wreck It Ralph, had a great part where it was like, never look at the comments.

Kind of thing. We have to look at the comments just to like make sure no one’s being nasty or like saying anything like Gross in there or like, you know going back and forth So like we’ll ban them and everything like that But like really if you want to be a content creator, don’t look at your comments like like yeah Yeah comments you like if you don’t have thick skin.

I have thick skin. You could come at me all you want Okay? I, I don’t care. I’m gonna just shake it off. But like, if you don’t have thick skin, like, Lauren doesn’t read, you usually read the comments that often. So like, I don’t,

Lauren: I don’t even look. I, because it just doesn’t, it doesn’t do anything for me. Um, especially on TikTok.

Like, TikTok? Ruthless. Yeah. Ruthless. I’ve, I looked on like one video one time and I was like, They think that of me? Wow. And then, uh, from that point I was like, yeah, you can handle the TikTok. Yeah.

Mike: Yeah. But that video had a million views and made us a little money, so,

Lauren: oh, well thank you. Chaching. Chaching.

like,

Akua: thank you. Haters .

Lauren: Every time you hate on me, I get paid.

Akua: I get paid. And there you go. Yeah. I think, I think if anything it’s just motivation to keep going. Yeah. Um, as business owners, just hearing that, like, you’re always gonna have naysayers, there’s always gonna be people that don’t understand you, and they.

Purposely are going out of their way to not understand you and at the end of the day It’s like what matters is that you continuously show up and continuously provide value because the right people you guys have literally built This very successful engaged community that are like ride or die for you guys.

And I think that’s just so So important and amazing and

Lauren: you’re like wait stop, but please keep going

Akua: So, you know, it’s

Lauren: just so it’s so bizarre because like this is a phenomenon. We did not Expect at all. We did not predict it Like we we kept saying like, you know Maybe we’ll do this for three months and see how it goes and we’ll probably fail

Mike: six episodes went to I think 15 and we’re like Yeah, we’ll probably end it for the busy season.

Like, you know, like we, we started recording it and I think, uh, February and we were like, maybe this will only last till like May and like when we start picking up and then we’re like, Oh, no, doing good. Let’s keep it going. Kept it going. So wild ride. Huh? Wild ride. It’s been

Akua: fun. Amazing. Oh, I’ve loved this conversation.

It’s been so much fun. And every episode we like to end with, what does it mean to you having an unbreakable business?

Lauren: Ooh,

Mike: really? To be honest with you, everything. Really everything. I know that’s probably a generic answer, but like it’s knowing that I built something myself has been like the biggest outside of like my kids, watching my kids, like, like having my kids and everything like that and watching my wife give birth and all of that.

Okay, building my business has been my biggest accomplishment. So honestly, it’s everything. It really is.

Lauren: Yeah, it’s the biggest flex. You know, you don’t have anybody to boss you around except for yourself. And I am a terrible boss. I will give myself that. But it is like very rewarding. Um, and do I think that my business is unbreakable?

No, but I think that I am so that, you know, that resilience is there. And if I feel like I can’t be broken, then probably me and my business.

Akua: Love that. That’s like the best note to end this conversation. That just like gave me the feels. I love it. Okay. Well, Mike and Lauren, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

And so for people, yes, like this has been so fun and let us hang out in your studio. Thank you, Matt. And so, and so for those that want to hang out with you and support you and check out the vendor table podcast, where can they find you?

Mike: I don’t know. Lauren, where can they find you first?

Lauren: You can find me at laurenobrienphoto.

com and laurenobrienphoto and theferralphotog on Instagram and TikTok for as long as we have it.

Mike: Um, at michaelsourphoto on Instagram, TikTok, as well as my website and for the vendor table you find us at thevendortablepod on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. Our Facebook group, as well as what else? Our website,

Lauren: our website, wherever you get your podcasts

Akua: and Spotify,

Mike: Apple, you name it.

Akua: You name it. Oh, awesome. Well, thank you both so much for joining me on the show and for everyone watching.

Thanks for tuning into unbreakable business. If you loved today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with. Someone who needs a little extra inspiration. Remember, no matter what life throws your way, you have the power to keep going and your business can be unbreakable too, until next time, keep building, keep growing and stay unbreakable.