The difference between a business owner and a though leader with Camille Campins-Adams

Akua: I have a question for you before we dive in today’s episode. What do you think the difference is between a thought leader and a business owner? Well, today on the show, you are going to find out. Camille Campins Adams, who is a bestselling author and a book coach, joins us on the show to break down what it really means to be a thought leader and the skills and mindset we need to step into that thought leadership role to gain more clients.

Now, if you have been wanting to figure out more ways to be innovative and and boldly share your expertise. Then you don’t want to miss today’s conversation. Now let’s get into the episode. Hey everyone. This is your host Akua Kanatu and you’re listening to the independent business podcast. More people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process.

So on this show, I get to sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs, and creators to break down the science of self made success so that you can achieve it too.

Hello. Hello, Camille. Thank you so much for being here. How are we doing?

Camille: I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Akua: Yes. I am like really excited for this conversation because I do think I’m so interested to know more of just how business owners, the difference between a business owner and a thought leader, how business owners can step more into their thought leadership.

And even before we kind of hop into that, I’m so curious to know more about your own journey into entrepreneurship, being an author and what you learned about thought leadership within that. Thank you.

Camille: Hmm. Oh my goodness. What a loaded question. I know. Sorry. Oh boy. So, you know, what’s funny? This is, life has a funny way of like bringing you back full circle.

When I was deciding what school to go to, right, I was in high school, I graduated valedictorian in my class, but like I never really, I did that mostly because my mom was crazy on top of me. And she’s like, you have to be top in your class. So it’s like, whatever. By the time I had to go to college, I was so over it.

And I was like, I’m just going to go get an easy quote unquote easy degree. And so I went to the University of Miami and I majored in entrepreneurship. Actually never knowing I was going to be an entrepreneur. Isn’t that hilarious? Yes. Um, so I went to UM in 2005. I didn’t start my business until 2018. So it’s, I mean, I didn’t, I would have never called it right.

But basically what happened was, um, I was thrown back into the workforce after being a stay at home mom for a while. And I was just tired of just being home, right? Like there’s something so beautiful about being a homemaker and being home with two little boys at the time. They were driving me absolutely bonkers.

I was like, I need an outlet. And so I went back and I got like two part time jobs. And then I quickly realized that that was not sustainable. And I was getting my master’s degree in creative writing at the time. Cause I’ve always loved writing. So I was like, let me go back to grad school. Let me get two part time jobs while raising a two and three year old.

That’s a really fun job. Great idea. And so basically what happened was I realized I needed more freedom. I wanted more time freedom and I wanted more control of my day to day and really a, a, a greater way to impact people’s lives. And so I decided to just start my business and I bounced around trying to figure out what it was that, you know, where I was going to land, right?

Like I wasn’t really sure where I was going to land. And it wasn’t until Right after covid that I 2020 end of 2020 beginning of 2021 that I started book coaching and that is where I have truly found my niche. It is what I’m extremely passionate about. I have since branched out into helping people with book launch strategies as well, but.

It just, it took me a little while. And so I think I always called myself multi passionate. I saw that about you too, on online that you’re multi passionate. And it’s really hard for us who are multi, those of us who are multi passionate to land on that one thing, right. That’s going to keep us motivated and inspired and wanting to.

Move forward and track ahead when times get tough because entrepreneurship has not been an easy road. I will not say it’s been easy

Akua: Yes I love that so much because it’s so true life really does have a way of coming in full circle Like you were already planting those entrepreneurial seeds, you know grabbing that major in college to now like you literally help people launch books like something that they have been Wanting to do for such a long time like you help make that happen and so I just love that so much.

And so as like you are helping people writing their books, launching their books, how are you seeing the difference between a business owner and a thought leader? Like what are the major differences that you’re seeing? So

Camille: both can be considered experts, right? Like you’re a business owner, obviously.

You’re some sort of an expert in whatever it is that you do, right? But I would say that a thought leader is really pushing the envelope, right? They’re, they, they’re more innovative. They’re thinking of more innovative strategies. They’re, they have insights that then they want to pass along to other people.

So it’s not just for them. It’s not just about having that knowledge, right? Like you can be a plumber. Like I guess maybe I’m watching too much of the contrarian lately, but yeah, you could be a plumber you could be like someone who Has a restaurant right like those are great things businesses to have and you can be very successful, but what about the knowledge that you’ve gained doing that?

Are you actually sharing that knowledge and helping others learn and grow through that, that process of actually sharing that information? And so I think that’s the difference between a business owner and a thought leader is a thought leader is somebody who’s consistently sharing their insights and sharing their knowledge.

They’re not keeping everything super close to the chest. They’re not trying, they don’t have a scarcity mentality of like, Oh, If I share this, it’s gonna, you know, impede on my growth. No, in fact, the more I share and the more that I help others, the more it helps me as well and we all can grow together.

And so it’s this idea of the ship’s rise together. And so thought leaders are just very, they’re cutting edge, they’re sharing information online, and they’re really showing up trying to help others in the industry as well. Do you think

Akua: that being a thought leader requires like a level of vulnerability.

Camille: You just hit the trigger word for me. Vulnerability. I wrote a whole chapter in an anthology about vulnerability. Abso frickin lutely. Okay. And so like when we think of Brene Brown, right, Brene Brown comes to mind because she talks so much about vulnerability and vulnerability is the thing that I love so much.

Because I actually have a problem with vulnerability. I share too much. Like, I am that person that sometimes gets too vulnerable with people. And then I’m like, man, everybody tells me I should keep things closer to the chest. And I shouldn’t be so open and vulnerable with what’s going on in my life. But then anytime I tell people that, they’re like, that is what we love about you, is how open you are.

And so if you’ve noticed, like the people that, that others and audiences really connect with are the ones that are being vulnerable, right? They’re the ones that are sharing their struggles and the lessons that they’ve learned. That makes them so much more relatable in the end. And so it really, what it’s doing is it’s fostering this connection, this trust, and this ability to have an open conversation.

And so. So, anytime I work with writers, I tell them vulnerability is key. If you are not being vulnerable, the reader and the audience can sniff it out. They really can. They can tell when you’re holding back, they can tell when you’re not being truthful, and they can smell the BS. And so you just don’t, you don’t want that, right?

You want to be real. People are craving real authenticity these days more than ever, I would say.

Akua: Yeah. Well, I’m really curious for you and your own personal journey of, like you said, like people have always said to you, you know, like it’s. It’s not like, you know, don’t be as open keeping things closer to the chest and you’re like, I have a problem with vulnerability.

How are you finding the balance essentially of where, all right, like you’re, I want to share this, but also too, I want to honor myself. I think. I’m a very vulnerable person as well. I have no problem sharing my life, but I also too, in my own journey have learned that it has to be a balance. Like not everybody needs to know every single thing of my life, right?

Cause some people can take that and not have the best intentions, but also too, I want to be able to help and support and inspire people. And so, and I know that there’s people listening that also struggle with that or trying to find the balance within that. So for you, what have you done that you have found that has really worked for you?

Camille: So, um, I would, right now I’m doing a. study on boundaries. I was actually just listening to one of your podcast episodes about boundaries. And I think it’s really about like, what is the boundary line that you feel comfortable with, right? Because ultimately a boundary is where my responsibility ends and yours begins, right?

And so as long as I have set a clear boundary of what I’m willing to share, that is not going to either one affect my family. Right. It’s not going to affect my family in a negative way. Um, I actually had a situation this weekend where, you know, my son, like I’ll give you my son as an example, and this is very vulnerable, but I’ve been, I’ve been really challenged with my middle son ever since he’s nine.

And ever since he was four, he has had severe mood swings. And so, you know, I’ve had to deal with that and cope with that. And sometimes I find myself. almost opening up too much about it with certain people. And then I wish I would have held that closer in. And I wouldn’t like, and when I say that, I mean more the specifics around what happened, right?

The things he might’ve said, or the exact things that might’ve happened. Like you can tell people, Hey, you know what? I’m struggling with this, but you don’t necessarily have to step on his boundaries. Right? Like I wouldn’t have to step on his boundaries. by then also telling people personal things about him that then I can’t take back.

I don’t know if that really makes it clear or not, but I think it really comes down to a boundary that you have to, you have to set in the sand.

Akua: Yeah, no, I think that’s such a great point that you can absolutely share your struggles, but you don’t have to get into the sand. Specifics to where like you can be honest, but also to honor the people that are involved.

And I love that you shared it in that way because again, you can honor yourself as a business owner. You can honor still your clients as you’re sharing these different types of stories to really be able to connect with your audience. And I think, again, a lot of people have that misconception that, You know, I’m a storytelling strategist and a lot of people have that misconception that they have to share everything or things have to be very dramatic and this and that.

And it’s like, no, I think, I think sharing pieces of your everyday life is what’s the most powerful thing as a business owner and that can help you grow as a business owner. And so I really just, I love that you highlighted that of us, like really thinking about our boundaries. And I think a lot of the times when we notice that we have to put the boundary up, it can be really hard, but just a reminder of like.

Again, how is this going to affect me afterward, my mental health? How is this going to affect the people that are involved? And so I think that’s a really great way for us to really just have a, a better idea of what we would like to share. I think thought leadership requires a different set of mindset and skills.

And I do think. In our industry, we require a lot more of that. Like all of us are so tired of seeing like the five tips to help you with XYZ. Right? Like, I really want to know what’s going into, you know, the products and services that you offer. I really want to know your thoughts right now about entrepreneurship and what you really think in your industry.

And so as a business owners, how do we start to shift our mindset in that, to step more into that thought leadership role?

Camille: Hmm. Yes. So like basically you’re saying, how do you get away from what everybody’s doing, right? Like the status quo. Yes. And actually pave a new way.

Akua: Yep. Exactly. And I think, I think that does definitely requires a different level of thought and a different level of skillset that maybe business owners just haven’t explored yet.

Camille: Yeah. And so, you know, when it comes to mine, when you, you know, when you asked me that question is really how much time are we actually spending outside? of our circle and allowing ourselves to be inspired, right? Inspiration begets inspiration, right? And so in order for us, and this I think has been even a challenge for myself, right?

Like I know that I’m being called to do something different within my industry, right? Like people are sick of hearing the same things about write your book in 90 days, launch your book and, you know, make a million dollars. Like all the things that people are saying, and I’ve been feeling Like, wow, I want to do things differently.

And so I think what it requires is really stepping, drowning out some of that noise and allowing yourself to sit in silence and be truly inspired because an, a, a thought leader is somebody that’s been inspired, right? Divinely inspired, or they have something that’s coming through that’s unique and different.

And so they’re creators. They’re creating a new way, they’re paving a new way. And so it’s not about really looking to the right and looking to the left, What’s this person doing? What’s this person doing? But almost like having those blinders on and saying, Okay, I’m going to center myself and I’m going to spend maybe some time in prayer or meditating.

Or really just like with my journal and see what kind of inspiration is going to come through. What is it that is trying to pour out of me? And I, and I always tell people this when they’re writing too, is allow yourself to have like stream of consciousness. You would be surprised at the things that come through for you.

And for those who. who are believers or have some sort of a spiritual belief system, you can tap into Source, or you can tap into your God, right? Like, what is it that they’re trying to tell you? What is it that’s trying to come through and be birthed through you? Because ultimately, I believe that we all have a purpose.

And if our desire is to be a thought leader, there’s a reason for that. That desire has been put inside of us for a reason. And we won’t live into that calling unless we actually do the work, right? And step into it. So if we can quiet ourselves enough and really listen to what’s trying to come through, we can honestly create incredible, unique ways of doing things that have been done in, in, in a million different other ways that maybe are just outdated.

Or don’t work anymore.

Akua: Yes, I think, I love that because I just think of my own journey of, I remember right before I like rebranded as a storytelling strategist, I like completely stepped back and took on no one on one work. Like I still had my retainer clients to where I was still having an income coming in, which was great, but it was because I was struggling.

I was just like, I’m not really inspired anymore. I’m not really enjoying the work that I’m currently doing. I know I want to do storytelling strategy, but this just isn’t the way. And. To your point of like just silencing everything so I could really collect my thoughts. And then I built an offer that I know nobody else offers.

Um, you know, that I feel really confident and proud about and have actually seen clients get the results that I have been wanting for so long that I had wanted. And I think that’s just so important for business owners to remember that sometimes if in order to move forward, it’s okay to take a step back.

It’s okay to just quiet everything out. And just, I love what you said, that stream of consciousness of just. Really see what can be poured out of you because it could lead into something that you would have Never guessed and never expected and I think to your point of leaning to get into inspired But also adding to that doing the things that really truly bring you joy Um, I think that’s where a lot of my best ideas have come is when I am, you know I took a pottery class and and now i’m moving in chicago Like I have it on my uh to do list this year.

It’s like get back into pottery because I sucked at it So bad in high school. I almost didn’t even uh pass the class. I mean the teacher was just like um Pottery isn’t your thing. Just do what you can to get the C and move on. And I was like, damn. Like, so I feel like for me going into pottery really healed my inner child in that sense, but however, I was so bad at it.

Um, even like as an adult, but it was so freeing to be bad at something again. And I just remembered like as a business owner, like it’s okay to be bad at something because that’s how you’re going to, it’s going to propel you forward. And so even in my pottery journey, I always take those lessons and apply it to my business.

Right. So like, again, like, what are the things that really bring you joy as an entrepreneur and lean into that? Because it can lead you to such a beautiful journey in ways that you just never would have thought of. So I really appreciate you brought that up.

Camille: Yeah. Well, and I love how you followed up with that because it’s just.

So true. We should always be trying something new, right? Something that takes us back to that beginner stage because that’s where we start to discover new things. It’s where we grow. It’s where really like we can become so much more expansive. If we just stay in our little, right, comfort zone, we’re not going to grow.

And so I just love that you challenged yourself that way with pottery. That sounds like a lot of fun. Makes me think of that, um, that movie. What’s the movie with, is it Ghost? There’s a movie with, oh my gosh, it’s famous. And that’s like the image that kept coming to mind for me. It’s You know the one, it’s like kind of like a nice scene with a man and a woman, but they’re like Oh

Akua: yeah!

I think it was

Camille: Patrick Swayze.

Akua: Is

Camille: it dope? What’s

Akua: the movie? I don’t even know the name. I never knew the name of that movie. But yes, I know what you’re talking about. Yes. It had

Camille: this visual of like, oh my

Akua: gosh, this is so sexy.

Camille: I love

Akua: it. As I’m like sitting in dirty clay trying to be like out of my face and I’m like, how the hell did this get here?

As I was trying, there was nothing sexy about it, but I love that you brought that vision up and I think again, it’s just to the, to the point of business owners. Like that’s just the beauty of starting over. And I think of one of our past episodes with Jasmine Starr, she said, you’ll never get the chance.

Just start at square one again. Like, you know what I mean? As a business. And so you always have to kind of like look for like, where’s your square one? Because it’s a very humbling experience because we get so comfortable with where we’re at and you can easily get bored. You can easily all of a sudden start building resentment in your business.

And so that’s where it’s like, if you find yourself that way, take a step back and go do something that’s going to fill your cup and see what that leads you. And it can lead you where you have. A totally different new offer that you would have never thought of or being, you know, more innovative, like you said, cutting edge.

And so, yeah, I think that’s really, really key. And so how do thought leaders establish their authority and influence in their industries? And how is this process different from the way that business owners might achieve influence?

Camille: Oh. Oh, man. I know. Okay. So, believe it or not. So, I really do think that the thing that will make you a thought leader, there are two big things, right?

Books and speaking on stage. There’s just something about getting on, uh, on a stage that makes people think, whoa, that’s, that person knows what they’re talking about. That’s why everybody goes and starts doing these TEDx, right? They’re like, if I can get on a TEDx, I’ve made it right. That’s really just the beginning, but same with a book.

If you have a book, people said only think, wow, this person must know what they’re talking about. Now that now there’s a caveat there. I worry that some people are putting out glorified business cards as books, and they’re really not well done. They have typos. I actually. Oh my gosh, I bought a book about it from a guy who actually helps people write books and launch books.

And I was like, I want to see what this guy’s selling. And he had a million typos. That’s not a good look, you know? Yes. But so I think if you can write a really well done book that shows like one, that you’re super professional and you know what you’re talking about and you stand out and you’re not just writing a book that is like everybody else’s other book, you are really making You’re welcome.

strides towards becoming a thought leader and proving yourself as a thought leader. I think a business owner really just cares about one thing, having a successful business with sales, right? And a thought leader. Yes. You want to sell, but some thought leaders don’t even really have a lot of offers. Like they’re making money off of their books or making money off of interviews or making money off of speaking on stages.

So thought leaders don’t necessarily, like if you think of Bernie Brown, Brene Brown is super famous for the books she’s written and the work she’s done on vulnerability and, and the research that she’s done. So it’s about her knowledge, how she’s sharing that knowledge and how it’s being transferred in the form of books and in the form of speaking.

So I think those are the two big things. Business owners do not have to get on stage. Business owners do not have to have books. Business owners just have to be able to run a business successfully and bring in sales. That’s pretty much the gist of what they’re doing. But thought leaders are really amplifying their voice, amplifying their message and rising above the tide way above.

Like you have, like, if you can think of like, The tide business owners are just kind of here floating, but thought leaders are really kind of rising above and trying to, to, to lead the way for everybody else to follow.

Akua: Yeah. And I love that you brought up that point, but, and I do think, you know, business owners are leaning more into thought leadership because like I speak on stages, you know what I mean?

Like at conferences and stuff to really establish that authority. What are other ways that we can really infuse the two together of like being a thought leader, being innovative, being, you know, just, you know, more of that where you are inspiring others, but then also to not losing that essence of like running a business.

Camille: Yeah. So what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to bridge the gap and blend thought leaders and business owners, because there’s been kind of like a bigger, um, you know, divide between the two up until more recently. And I think a lot of what’s changing the atmosphere right now is, you know, social media and technology and the fact that we are more, we are more easily able to reach broader audiences than ever before.

So back in the day, I would say that speaking on stage and writing books was the way to become a thought leader, right? Because that is what was available to us. There really weren’t as many options, right? Social media wasn’t around. Podcasting wasn’t around. They were just, it was just limited. And so you had to go through this long, arduous process to becoming this thought leader because Even getting a publishing deal back in the day was way harder than self publishing is today.

So now there’s just, it’s so much more accessible for business owners to say, Hey, you know what? I want to step into this role of thought leader where people can see me as that go to person and I can be innovative, right? And that level of innovation doesn’t have to be As great as it is for some other thought leaders, right?

Like where you’re coming up with something completely new, like think Mark Zuckerberg, right? Facebook is like this whole new thing. It’s not necessarily about creating something completely new, but maybe changing things and tweaking things enough to make it new and more innovative, right? And so I would say, Like podcasting, like we’re doing here and getting, getting your name out and really speaking on different platforms is really a huge way to do this.

It could be on Instagram lives. It can be on YouTube. It could be just like leveraging other people’s audiences to get your message out, but really it’s going to be all about visibility. Right? So thinking about how are you becoming visible if it’s not through a book and if it’s not through speaking on stage or through a TEDx or big conferences or conventions, you can start small.

You can do workshops like local workshops, work speaking at schools or speaking at local local groups, depending on who your audience is works really, really well. And then, you know, leveraging social media. I, I, my social media is never like my go to answer just because I am not. super present on social media because like I have a love hate relationship with social media myself, but it works, right?

Like I, I still have to tell my clients use social media, leverage social media because it works. And that’s, what’s going to help you get your message out there. So you can consider blogging if you prefer writing to speaking, but really people want to see your face. People want to see you on video. And so Yes, podcasts do really well, but most podcasts nowadays also have YouTube channels where you can see people and, and actually, you know, engage with them at like that next level.

So, uh, I don’t know if that answers your question, but I would say that really it’s just about amplifying the message.

Akua: Yeah, no, I think that’s a good point. And something I’m really curious about, you know, obviously, as, Since AI and technology has just transformed so drastically over the past few years, how do you see thought leadership essentially being in the

Camille: next 5 10 years?

Yeah, how is it gonna adapt, how is it gonna change based on with, with everything that’s going on with AI? Yes. So, AI is a trip, it’s a really tricky topic to talk about, right? Because especially as a writing coach, I think AI can be utilized for brainstorming, for I think it could definitely be the thing that helps you come up with maybe outlines, like I’ve had clients use it to help them with outlining their books or outlining speeches.

But when it comes to actually writing, you have to be so careful that you are not plagiarizing, right? And that you are not leaning on AI to create for you, right? Like AI cannot be the creator. You are the creator. You are the genius. The minute that you give that up to artificial intelligence. You are dimming yourself.

You are really almost, I find that it’s going to create some insecurities in people. They’re not going to think that they’re good enough to write as good as AI. They’re like, well, what, what, everything that AI comes up with is so much better than what I can come up with. So why even bother? Right? So you have to be really careful with the use of AI that you’re not going to allow it to.

Really harm you right like you’re using it as a way to help Maybe shorten the timeline for how long it takes to do things But you really have to be careful that the ideas that are you that you are bringing forth are truly yours And that you’re not plagiarizing because we all know That there are authors that have been accused of plagiarizing There are thought leaders that have been accused of plagiarizing and it doesn’t go over well that completely ruins your credibility and it will destroy your life if You’re not careful how you’re using ai so not to scare people.

I think you can still Use it, but you have to be really careful how you’re using it.

Akua: Yeah, I think that’s a really great point because I do believe that AI can enhance things but even for me I have been using a lot more AI tools that have saved me a lot of time but the way that I do it because I just don’t want to like even forget how to make a sentence.

Um, I write it first. I write it first myself. And then I have these prompts that like are really like attached to my voice of that. So I’ll say like, Hey, what are some ways that I can improve this? And then I make those edits myself. Right. And so I think that’s such a great reminder and of just finding ethical ways of how to use AI to where like you were still putting in that human aspect of who you are, that emotional connection, that vulnerability, those things AI can’t produce, you can.

And so I think that’s just a really, really great reminder for people of using it ethically, but also to use it in a way to where like you’re not losing pain. the sense of who you are. And it’s so tempting, right? Because you want to produce this content and you probably produce it quickly because we don’t have all the time in the world.

But I do think taking a little bit of that extra time to write things out yourself or create that content yourself and then using AI tools to help with that. I think that’s going to take you much, much further and where you’ll always be grounded as well as a business owner. So I absolutely love that.

And this conversation has been so, so helpful. And so is there anything else that you want to add and share to independent business owners?

Camille: Um, I

Akua: would say that

Camille: if you’re feeling the itch or the pull to jump in and actually start amplifying your voice, amplifying the message that you have to share, just do it.

Don’t hold back. Right? Tomorrow is not guaranteed. And I think a lot of times we can just tell ourselves like we’re too busy or we’re too busy or things are just kind of getting in the way. And so people hesitate to write the book. They hesitate to speak on the stage. They, they don’t do the things that they’re being called to do and then they turn around and 10 years have passed, right?

So I just want to encourage everybody to do it, to just go out, take a leap of faith and trust that you will

Akua: succeed. Yes. Oh, I love that. This might even be linked to the next question when I ask you your answer, but every episode we’d love to end with is what do you think is the biggest differentiator between the businesses that succeed and the ones that fail?

Camille: Perseverance. I would say, I can’t tell you the amount of times I felt like giving up. Business ownership and entrepreneurship are so challenging emotionally, physically, and in so many ways, because really you’re not just showing up to work and having someone tell you what to do every day. Like you are the creator, you are generating the revenue, you are creating the content.

And yes, you can grow a team. You have to continue to show up because let me tell you, growing a team comes with its own challenges too.

Akua: Yes. Um,

Camille: so it’s just the perseverance and just the Belief in yourself so you can keep going and keep going even when times get tough.

Akua: Yes. I love that so much Well Camille, thank you so much for this conversation.

And for those who want to connect with you, where can we find you? How can we support you?

Camille: So I was gonna give you a free gift that you can include if you want in the comments Oh, we

Akua: will. Yes. Well absolutely put in the show notes. Yes I

Camille: was gonna say I have a couple free gift options for your audience that you guys can pick from but you can just find me on Camille Campin’s It’s Adams.

com, which I know is a mouthful, but, um, but we’ll drop the, the freebie because I have a couple of different options to help you write a book and really think about vulnerability and storytelling so that you can actually turn your business story into a bestselling book.

Akua: Oh, love that. Well, thank you.

Thank you so much, Camille, and for everybody listening until next time. That ends our episode of the Independent Business Podcast. Everything we’ve discussed today can be found at podcast. honeybook. com. Head to our website to access for show notes, relevant links, and all of the resources that you need to level up.

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