Shay Brown and Cassie Torrecillas on building a business with your best friend

Akua: Running a business by yourself is one thing, but running a business with a partner comes with a different set of challenges. I’m so excited about today’s conversation because we get to see what it really looks like when friends come together to create a successful business. Shea Brown, COO and Cassie Torrecillas.

CEO of bucket list bombshells sat down with us to talk about their incredible business journey and how they navigate their friendship and business as partners. This conversation was so fulfilling and just truly inspiring to see how these two have taken their passion to build something incredible together.

There are so many amazing moments in this conversation, and I know you are going to love it. So let’s get into the episode. Hey everyone, this is your host, Akua Kanadu, and you’re listening to the Independent Business Podcast. More people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process.

So on this show, I get to sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs, and creators to break down the science of self made success so that you can achieve it too.

Hello, Shay. And hello, Cassie. How are we doing? So great. We’re so good. That’s probably 

Shay: going to happen a lot on the pod. Um, yeah. So good. Yes. 

Akua: Oh, I’m so excited to have you both. We’ve already just been chatting and I like asked a question and you were already giving such good answers. We were like, hold on, hold on.

We got, we got to record. Let’s stop right now. So. So. So I’m just so excited because I feel like you guys, you don’t see this a lot where there’s a lot of business owners who are in a partnership and where, and then are killing it. Right. So I’m really excited to know more about your story and just essentially how you have been able to have a solid friendship and have a solid business.

So thank you for being here. Yeah. 

Cassie: Yeah. Such a fun conversation. We never, we were chatting about this a couple of days ago. Like we never get to talk about. this side of our business too. So I’m excited and obviously it is a big part of who we are and our dynamic and I feel like in a way like our secret sauce.

So cool to be able to share and chat with you because honestly this conversation isn’t really anywhere. Yes, I know 

Akua: and it’s so, so needed. And so I really want to know essentially of your origin story because you guys have known each other a long time. And you have done a lot together. So I really want to know how you guys connected and then essentially what led to you, like, all right, like let’s be in business together.

And so Jay, I’ll have you go first. Cause you were already giving us a little bit about that. 

Shay: So just to, for everyone listening, I’m actually Canadian and Cass is American. So a lot of times people say, Oh, did you meet in university? Um, no, we didn’t we met after university just pretty much like the first year right after we had both graduated.

I Booked a one way ticket down to Mexico and I went down there to actually do like a mentorship with a woman who worked online so Working online was kind of like new concept back then. I had met her at my school and she had said she lived in Mexico and worked online as a website designer. And I thought, well, that is so cool.

So I interned with her, did a mentorship. And so I booked that ticket down to Mexico. And then, um, that’s where Cassie and I met. So Cassie also did the same thing and Cass can kind of share her journey, how she got there. But we both basically had booked one way tickets down to Mexico. And I was sitting in a cafe and a friend of mine introduced me to Cassie and that’s, uh, you know, kind of the history of how we met and actually I go back a lot to Playa del Carmen and it’s really meaningful for me to walk by that cafe and think, oh my gosh, like 11 or 12 years ago, we met at this Cafe, I was just sitting on my computer and she walked up and was introduced to me.

What? 

Cassie: Yeah It’s crazy because it’s just like so serendipitous I think but then I mean we’ll get into this probably later on in the conversation like I truly believe like it was so meant to be like Obviously we were meant to be best friends meant to meet at that coffee shop meant to be in business together I really don’t think We would be where we are today, even running bucket list bombshells.

So it’s crazy to think that life and, you know, whatever you believe in, like we’re both Christians. So like, I genuinely believe that our path was led to this coffee shop and we are coffee obsessed. It’s just like, we love coffee shops. We go and travel and we’re just like, what coffee shops should we go to?

So anyways, it’s such a cool part of our story. And honestly, it feels like ages ago. Um, I guess it kind of is, yeah. It 

Shay: was back in 2013. So yeah. Oh my goodness. So 

Akua: like over 10 years. Yeah, over 

Shay: 10 years now. 

Akua: So I’m really curious for both of you of like what essentially prompted each of you to book that one way ticket.

I’m so curious to know. I don’t know. I’m so, I’m like what? Like you both booked a one way 

Cassie: ticket. So like Shay said, I was just out of university. And I think that I really had this experience like in my senior year in university, I worked so hard in school. I like, I love school. I worked as well at the same time.

Like I was always, you know, kind of like your type, a super ambitious student. And I think I had this realization my senior year, like I can work this hard for, um, Another company and build kind of like their legacy and make that part of my career, or I can do something that I like genuinely love and do it for myself and get paid to do that.

Now, I didn’t know what that answer was, right? Like our history, obviously doors have opened and unfolded, but I think just like that realization. And so my mom was actually living in. Playa del Carmen at the time. And she has been just like a huge champion and supporter in my career, but in my entire life.

And she was like, you have always worked so hard. You know, I played competitive volleyball. I was working throughout university to. Like, I feel like I really did pave it my way. She’s like, why don’t you just take a little bit of time, come here and figure it out. And that really felt like for the first time in my life that I was giving myself space to like carve out my career, like make some decision other than, you know, you just move on to the next grade that’s there.

Right. And so. That’s how I ended up in Mexico, really thinking about what did I love to do? I’ve always loved marketing. I’ve always loved design. I’ve loved travel. And so I started researching just like, how do people get paid to, you know, get paid to travel? And so I went down that rabbit hole and how do I get paid to write and to blog?

And it just really fell into this, like, Space for me to experiment and to learn. And I think that was probably around six months. It wasn’t a whole lot of time. And that was the time that I met Shay at the coffee shop. So Shay, you can tell your side of the story cause yours is so good too. Oh man. Like I just, I think about little Shay back then, just busting into your like parents house and being like, Yeah, 

Shay: I was a firecracker for sure.

I feel like I’m more mellow now than I was back then. Um, but I also was kind of a very similar, very ambitious since I was like a little girl, I knew I wanted to like be my own entrepreneur. I was like, Taking my sister’s stuffies and like making her buy them back with me. And like different things like taking my, a hustler at heart, honey , I was like on the corner, like slinging lemonade left and right and all profits.

I got my parents to buy the supplies, so I was just, and I didn’t give them a cut. I was just pure profit. Yeah. You knew what you had to do. Yeah. Yeah. So I just, it, it was in my blood and, um. My dad always told me from a young age to quote unquote, get my piece of the pie. He said, you know, he works for himself as a chiropractor and he was just, he, my grandpa was an entrepreneur and it just was really a part of like our family kind of motto.

You know, it was like work for yourself, was always kind of ingrained in me that that was the way to live the life or the lifestyle and be able to make my own decisions and really have autonomy over like my life. So that’s really, I think where that inspiration came from. And so I went straight into business school with like a specialization and entrepreneurship new from the beginning, again, wasn’t totally sure what I was going to do.

I think at one point I wanted to be in like the fashion industry and then e commerce was kind of coming on the scene and I thought, okay, I could do that. So I feel like I was always like on like these entrepreneurial trends. Like I was like, Oh, I saw like social media come up. So I started like, Self teaching myself social media management while I was in school, and that’s actually what led to Meeting a woman that I ended up interning for.

So she came and spoke at my school and we had to write a paper on one of these. We had like, I think 10 entrepreneurs come and I chose her because she was on Zoom doing her presentation to us from Mexico. And I thought, well that is just so cool. I’m a small town girl. I am like from a very, very small town on Vancouver Island in Canada.

And I think I had traveled to France. I did like a year, um, semester abroad and went to school there. And I thought. Oh my gosh, like people live differently. There’s a whole wide world out there. I don’t have to do it the way that I see, you know, this, there’s nothing against small town life. I really have roots there for sure.

But there, I felt like I was meant for something more and seeing another culture, uh, that really inspired me to want to travel cause we didn’t really, um, travel much like growing up. We did a lot of like road trips in Canada, let’s say, you know, but I was like, France was one of the first really eyeopening experience of another Culture, another way of life.

And I, that really like was on my heart. I was learning these new things. I met this woman and I did my paper on her and she told me all about how she started a website design business and was able to get clients online and do it for Mexico. So when I graduated, I got an, uh, like a short term job through a startup company.

They took a chance on me. I didn’t know what I was talking about. Social media was so like, they were just like, yeah, okay. Like do whatever you want. So I had to like learn on the job I was, you know, doing like watching YouTube or reading blog posts, probably more so at the time. And, and so I was self taught there and then I was doing some interning for the woman that I mentioned.

And, um, in kind of the website design world and realized, Ooh, I like this. This is really techie. And so my contract was ending at this other company. I was doing social media management work for. And then the woman I was interning for suggested, cause we would have chats about like my career, my goals, and she was like, well, if you can like pay your way to come down, she’s like, I can’t pay you, but I can show you how to start the same type of business as me.

And maybe you do social media, or maybe you do website design. And I thought, Okay. Well, I’m very resourceful. So I was like, well, that sounds good. Let me figure it out. It was about two weeks to, to the end of the contract. So I went into them and I was just so gutsy back then too. I mean, I probably still am, but I basically told them like, you need to keep me.

And I’ll work part time, but I’m going to do it from Mexico. And that was my pitch. Like that was my pitch. Like I think back, I teach, I like teach sales. Now I teach pitching. Like I just walked in like a 22 year old and was like, Hey, you’re going to keep me on. And I’m going to do this from Mexico now. But like, don’t worry about the logistics.

I’ll figure it out when I get there. And they were, I just, I have so much gratitude to this. They were best friends. These two guys were best friends and they had started a company too, which I also think is really cool. And they took a chance on me and they said yes. And so then I booked my one way ticket.

I busted into like, what cats say to my parents house. And I said, Hey, I’m going to go to Mexico and I don’t know if I’m going to come back like so dramatic. Like, and I’m also not going to go into corporate. I’m going to start my own business, but I don’t really know how to do that. So my parents are the best.

They’re also so supportive. Again, they just, They were like, okay, well, like you’re on your own. You got to make it happen. You know, like go off. We’re not going to like support you traveling or taking a year off. Like financially they were like, you got to take care of yourself. And I said, yeah, yeah, don’t worry about that.

And so I had enough to like cover rent. I stayed in this like apartment that was just had like geckos in it. And like the door didn’t close all the way. And it was like, there was no AC and it was kind of in a tree house. It was really great. It was, um, it was so fun. And like, that was just the most exciting time as well to just go down to say bye, to be supported by my family.

But also I did have that mentor down there who I felt very confident she was going to. Show me what to do. And so I really already had the idea going to Mexico. I had the idea that I was going to start an online business. And so it ended up being social media management and website design. And that’s again, right around the time when I think I had William did maybe I had my client back in Canada and then I had landed, I think one more client.

Around that time was when I met Cass. And so it was like, we were in that same mode, that same mindset. We were like, Oh my gosh, we’re at the start of this career. No, there’s, there was no information online on how to really do it. Everything was very like be an affiliate marketer, or that was really the main thing that I would see, or travel, like get paid to that was travel blogger was like the next thing that was kind of starting to emerge and so being service based and finding and landing clients and delivering services online was just.

We just had to figure it out on our own, which I like to do. So long story long, that’s how I ended up in Mexico. 

Akua: Yeah. I love that though, because I feel like both of you guys were in a, though your Pat, like your lives are very different. Your paths were both extremely similar and that you were looking for something more, like you knew.

The current path that you were on wasn’t necessarily the best fit. And you’re like, okay, I know that there’s something out there for me. I know that there’s something more and I’m just going to take a chance and figure this out to where fate literally both brought you into a coffee shop. So now let’s fast forward, right?

Like you guys are, have been friends for a long time. You’re traveling together, all these different types of things. What then led to like, okay, let’s start a business together. 

Shay: So, well, we started out having our own separate companies and what was really fun was we did start to kind of collab. Like if we got clients, like, you know, Cass was a designer and I was more like the tech side operations.

And so we were actually able to do some collaboration and kind of start working together in that sense, which was great. But really how Buckle is Bombshells was born was we started, so what we left Mexico, we started traveling. We thought, well, if we can do it in Mexico, we can do it anywhere. So we both had that travel desire on our hearts.

And so we started traveling. We started meeting other people working online. Coworking spaces were kind of a thing, but mostly it was also cafes. We met a lot of other at the time called digital nomads working in cafes, which was really cool. And what we found though, was, um, a lot of the men were doing affiliate marketing and their girlfriends were taking a gap year, taking a year off and that’s, he was.

The one kind of bringing in the finances and then she would see us working online and she didn’t want to do affiliate marketing. She wanted to do something that, um, was more from a place of like what her experience level was or what hurt, like feeling a little bit more purposeful working one on one with clients, um, versus it just having to be, you know, sales and marketing.

And so that’s when they just started asking us questions. And we started going out for coffee with these women and solo travel women as well, who also, it was a lot of like, well, I’m taking a gap year and then I’m going back to corporate, but I have a degree in, you know, design or communications or whatever it was.

And so they’d ask us, you know, how did we get started? How do we find clients? How did you like package or services, these kinds of things. And we just started having coffee with people and it started to grow into a community. And we launched a Facebook community called the Bucket List Bombshells community.

And, uh, one day we were just sitting in Italy in our kitchen and, and, uh, we decided, you know, let’s like, let’s put this out there in a way that can be consumed instead of us having to do one on one. You know conversations and we at the time courses online courses were starting to kind of come about I was following a lot of people In the that were creating online courses and I thought well we could do that And so that’s kind of how the idea of the first course came about um, and then And yeah, so that’s kind of how we started Bucket List Bombshells.

I don’t know, Cass, if you want to talk about the name. Everybody always asks us about the name and I think it’s really fun. Talk about how we came up with that. Oh, 

Cassie: about Bucket List Bombshells. Yeah. I think like Shay was mentioning, like a big part of our desire to do something different than the nine to five.

You know, we’re early 20s like we want to travel, you know, we want to like see the world There’s so much of the world to see the idea of just like being in a cubicle just felt like the worst thing And there’s there’s nothing wrong with that I’m, just sharing obviously our experience and our desire and so like we didn’t know That there was even a path different than a nine to five.

And I think that was really what we started recognizing as we took one step in front of the other and gotten clients and realized like, Oh my gosh, we are making like a decent salary. You know, working online and having clients and like, we went to university and nobody told us about this, you know, I studied business as well.

Like that was never an option or an opportunity. And so I think that was really a big part of our brand, especially in the early days. So our very first online course was called the work online and travel the world, of course, and it really, yeah, it, it really was like what we wanted to share, like all these lessons and things that we felt like we were learning the hard way.

And like, that could be an entire other episode because we working and traveling early days, like. You know, we are talking 12 years ago. Like there was no infrastructure for wifi. We were like on the side of a mountain in Guatemala, supposed to be taking sales calls. Like we have some stories to share, girl, but we basically were like, you know what, if some, there are other women out there who want.

A similar lifestyle and career for themselves as us, then we want to make this course, like we want to make this easier for them and know that there’s this option, uh, available to them for their career. And so Bucket List Bombshells, I honestly just kind of came up with the name because we had sat at this table and decided when we realized we could make money by having clients online, like let’s create this, this course.

Bucket list. Like, where do we want to go? What are the things we want to see? And bucket list, foam shells, I don’t know, kind of stuck. And it’s funny because nobody, like I shared it with in the early days. And we just went with it. And I was like, I don’t know, we like it. So we stick with it. And now it’s.

It’s in a signature. It’s like a household name. 

Akua: Yeah. 

Cassie: So, yeah. It’s kind of stuck. 

Akua: Oh my gosh. I love that. And I think just hearing your whole journey so far, there’s just so many things that just confirm that you guys are on the right path and like what you were doing was just so aligned. And I think that’s just, it’s just so beautiful just to see how much your journey has evolved to where you guys now have a very successful business as partners.

And so even from a practical standpoint, what were some things that you guys really wanted to make sure that you had addressed, you know, uh, really, you know, just to make sure that like, You both are protected as business owners. And, you know, I feel, I feel like a lot of those times too, that of course you guys have friendships, but I think sometimes as business, when you’re choosing to get into those things, it can be hard to have those conversations really of like, what are our values?

What do things look like? You know, how do we both protect each other, ourselves, the business, you know what I mean, the things that are not as sexy and that can easily get messy. How did you guys navigate through that? 

Cassie: That’s a great question. I think that, like you were saying, it’s something that people are afraid to have those conversations and it, I think, you know, it’s okay to be afraid to have the conversation, but I think knowing the results of that conversation is going to lead you to the answer of like, should you be in business with this person?

Like, can you have the tough conversations? Like Shay and I always joke, like, I think being in a business partnership is very similar to being in a relationship, like with your life partner. I think so. Like we have tough conversations. We navigate life together. You have to be able to sit down and, and talk about those things.

You know, like, do we one day ever want to sell the company? You know, what is the vision for the company? What are our values? You know, we, we do protect ourselves. We have lawyers, we have the hard conversations. And I will say like those. Early days, like we’re early twenties. We are not thinking about these types of conversations, right?

Like we’re not like, how are we protecting ourselves in a business partnership? It really came about more organically. And like Shay was sharing, because we partnered together in our own businesses, I think that really became this great experiment for us to navigate Working professionally together. How do we communicate?

Do we trust each other? Can we rely on the other person when they say they’re going to, you know, complete something for a client? Are they completing within the deadline? Uh, are they communicating with us? If some. If they can’t do something, and I think all of those, again, very organically led us to the realization that like we are great at working together.

We have very opposite strengths and we support each other’s weaknesses, but together we are like. Superfire, you know, like we like to do opposite things, but we have a similar We have very similar values and we have a shared vision. And so I think that all of those Things really coming together led us to recognize like, Hey, like we could go further together.

And the vision for Bucket List Bombshells as a company was very much a shared desire, a shared vision to empower women and to teach them. And then I think more tactically, We have, because we have separate skill sets, it allowed bucket list bombshells to flourish and we were able to find our roles, but it wasn’t until I honestly think like a few years in at least until we really got into, I think what I would call a success growth point.

And we were making serious money. We had a business coach and we were part of a mastermind that we started to really define. You know, what are our individual roles? Like what is our skillset? And, um, there’s an amazing book. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it called rocket fuel and talks about this dynamic between visionaries and integrators, which ends up being this.

CEO and COO role. And in the early days we were just doing everything together. You know, it’s like the bestie era. We’re just like, you do this, I do this, you know? And like, we’ll both do this. And we weren’t really a maximizing our time, but we weren’t working within our skillset. It was just like, we both do everything.

And so. I think out of reading Rocket Fuel, it really defined this CEO, COO dynamic that we have, and that in itself was a hard conversation to have, you know, like, how do we feel about these roles and how does this change the dynamic of how we move forward? So, um, gosh, yeah, 10, 10 years in business and Buckle S bombshells and 12 years working together.

We’ve navigated a lot of seasons of our partnership, but going back to your original question, like being able to have those hard conversations has allowed us to navigate these different seasons of, I would say our personal lives, but also the business as well. 

Shay: Yeah, Shay, 

Akua: anything you want to add, please?

Yes. 

Shay: Morris, I want to just emphasize the point about the shared values. I think that for me, that was really important. And, uh, something I noticed in the way that maybe a vision changes, or, um, you know, we’ve pivoted, we’ve, we’ve had, like Cass was saying, like hard times, great times, like. Um, new products and services we’ve launched.

Some have failed. Some have been amazing. Whenever we come back to like, what do we both want individually? Like we actually take time to think about those things separately before we even come back. And then we see if we’re on the same page, but what it always seems to boil down to is casting. I have very similar values.

I think we’re very raised with very similar values that when we’re never significantly, I would feel like off page. You know, I feel like we come and we say something and even time and like a little, you know, it’s tough having that conversation. And then the other person just like, is also on the same page as well.

Just feels like so great. But then also if you’re not, it’s like, okay, well, let’s talk about that. How do we support each other in that? And I think that really knowing someone like we had traveled together and, you know, got lost on the side of a mountain kind of thing, like, You know, like as, as silly as that sounds, it was like, you know, I, going back to the trust, but also like, how does someone handle tough situations or when they’re supporting you through something hard or when they’re even supporting you through something good, how do they treat you as well?

And then what are their, what is their vision for their life? Like outside of business, your business is supposed to support that lifestyle. So. Like what do they want to like do their financial goals? Are they the same as yours? And so I think that it just really comes back to like really having that kind of foundation of like a similar vision, uh, for our life, for our business, even as different people, we don’t want the exact same things, but we have a similar North star.

And then I think we have similar shared values. And that values is really. At the heart of where your desires come from. So if you have really different values, or you value things like the money, or the, the vision, yeah, like about empowering women, or are you in it for some other reason, or is there, you know, the, what is the end goal for you?

And is it at least like similar to the other person? And I think that that really, um, I just really wanted to emphasize like really knowing who you’re getting into business with Versus their skill set. I would rather you know, like who they are deeply and again I I was young. I don’t think I was thinking about this when we first started, you know, it was Young and fun and made sense.

And it was about like, yeah, you know, us coming together and doing this really cool thing. And then it was like later on when you, when you look back and you think about it and the advice I give now to people is like, just really know that person. And I think intuitively I did know her on that level. 

Akua: Yeah.

I mean, so much goodness. Both of you have shared of like, number one of viewing, uh, being in business, somebody like, uh, like you’re in a relationship. I think that’s so, so true because you are tested in ways that you didn’t think, right, like a partnership you’re tested in different ways when you’re by yourself versus in partnership, like so many new things come out that you just didn’t realize, like, Oh, like I need to work on this or, Oh, I didn’t realize I had this issue, you know what I mean?

When you think about relationships and how it also applies to partnerships, right. In business. And that’s so, so true. And it really does require really good conflict resolution skills. And also to that, just that emotional intelligence as well of how can we solve this in a way that feels good for both parties.

But then also too, I just love what you said to Shay with just like, really just making sure that your values are really aligned and really knowing the person outside of the skillset, because when things get hard and you really get to see how people are, right? Like you really get to see. See where people truly do reveal themselves.

And this is not a bad thing. It’s just like when you’re tested, that’s what it just shows how you really are. And I think that’s just such an important thing. Instead of looking at skillset, look at personality because things are, you know, we already know with entrepreneurship success is just, it’s never linear.

It’s like always up and down in a merry go round that you find yourself on. And so I do want to ask this though, like when. Seasons were hard. Was there at any point in time where you were like, I, where one or the other was like, I don’t know if we can do this. Or were you just like, all right, we’re going to figure this out.

Like, I guess, what does that, what does that look like for both of you? 

Cassie: Yeah, I guess I think probably both. There’s been definitely seasons where, you know, I don’t know if it’s just like not as hard or you’re just in a certain mindset that you’re like, okay, like we got this, you know, luckily for us, I think most times it’s like, Been an ebb and flow where like one of us is more up and the other is more down sometimes.

And so we’re able to lift each other up because you have the, you know, the energy or the emotional capacity to bring each other up. I think the most difficult seasons for us, which thankfully have been very few and far between have been when we’re both at a low. And I think that is really a time where like.

We lean on each other, but I think almost we realized that like, we have to just like dig in ourselves, right? Those are hard work and conversations that we’re trying to navigate. Separately. And then we’re coming together and we’re trying to just like, do the best we can, you know, for lack of a, lack of a better word.

Like we are like, this is something that Shay says, and we tell our clients this, but like when we are in a serious low, like we’re not trying to get to a thriving place, 

Shay: we’re 

Cassie: not trying to get the business to thrive. We are. In survival mode. And we’re like, let’s get to neutral. Let’s get back to a place where we’re just like, we’re okay.

We can be, we’re stable. We’re just like, it’s okay to go through the motions. And then once we’re at neutral, we’re like, okay, we have energy. We know we have a vision. You can kick it into a different gear and thrive. But yeah, I think for sure, we’ve had. All of the things you shared, like the in betweens, but the most challenging for sure is, is.

And, you know, in any partnership, I would think is when you’re both at a low, I think too, there’s that conversation. I think Akua, you talked about this with Ashlyn as well, um, about mental health is like, there is a difference, I think, between struggling in the business and then struggling outside of the business.

But it is, you know, It’s very often that both seem to happen at the same time. And you’re just like, what’s going on? I, you know, how did we get here? When they say it rains, it pours. And I think like that. And I think that is probably the most challenging time is like, you’re going through stuff personally, not seeps itself into the business.

And, you know, I don’t think there’s any perfect formula for that. And luckily, because like Shay was sharing, like we know each other. Well, I think at the end of the day, like we respect each other and just like we want to give ourselves grace, we give the other person grace. So even if you’re on the person that’s on the up and up.

In this season and the other person is down, you better bet. Yeah, that like, it’s going to come around, you know, like that there’s going to be a season where I’m going to need someone to lift the weight for me, just like she’s, you know, just like we’ve done the opposite. And so again, it’s not really like, we don’t discuss it in that way, but that’s been, what’s happened.

Gosh, I am so grateful really for those. I think in those challenging moments, you really realize like how much having a business partner really can pull you up. Like having somebody else who’s a hundred percent in it with you. You know, I don’t know if I was on my own in some of my darkest seasons. I could have honestly probably just called it quits, you know, maybe I would have come back around but yeah, that’s kind of um how we have navigated those challenging seasons and Yeah, i’m just really grateful that we’ve had each other to go through them.

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh shay anything that you want to add Yeah, I 

Shay: think I like definitely agree with everything that cast said just in like for sure like the supporting of up and down I think that i’ve never really questioned like our partnership I’ve sometimes questioned the business when I’ve been in darker seasons.

I’ve questioned, I’ve, I’ve reached burnout a couple of times, which led us, which led us to a really big pivot that ended up being one of the most fulfilling things and, you know, led me to really rediscover my own passion for the business and Cass allowed that time and space to almost put this bigger vision on hold.

And that was like, A really for me that was a really like defining moment I think for me and it was like the support there was It was just so all or nothing, you know, it was like all there, right? It was like, okay, like you, you need a break. You need some time, big downtime. You were not, I was no, I was no longer connected to my purpose or my vision.

And at the same time, there was a lot of personal stuff going on too. Like Cass says, it kind of, when it rains, it pours. And it just, you know, that was probably the toughest moment for me to, you know, To, to admit that really, you know, as a high achiever, as a, someone who built this business off of this.

incredible passion, incredible desire to serve in that particular way. And for me to be able to say that, and it was a very scaring moment, you know, to say that I’m really misaligned with the vision that the way, the direction, I would say that the company is going and I can’t sustain this anymore. And so to.

To have someone like that, I probably would have thrown the towel in if I was on my own. And to have someone say, okay, like, well, like, what do you need? And for me to even understand how to communicate my needs and for that to be supported in something as big as like, this is our career. This is our, you know, this is our income.

This is our, was our vision. This was our passion, our purpose, right? We are, we are serving, um, at such a high level. And that was. a really amazing defining moment. And I think that after that, and, and, you know, we pivoted and, and, um, we are now serving to in a one on one way with coaching. So I mentioned courses.

So we pivoted more into coaching, which ended up being something that I experimented and dabbled in and had that space to do that as well, to almost scale back. And now we are in this new season of growth, and it’s just been incredible. And I just can’t. Imagine having done that on my own at all. And I think that that was for me a really like big, like, or that was like a moment of like, this is partnership.

This is being vulnerable. This is communicating your needs. This is, you know, say like. Taking time for yourself as well. And you’re in like that mental health space and everything that was needed. And I think that if my partner was not my best friend, I don’t think it would have gone that way. I don’t, I see other partnerships where it’s very all business and that’s fine and that’s great.

But I think that I would have been harder to approach a situation like that. Since that moment in time, you know, was going to affect both of us in, in a great way. It wasn’t just going to affect me. And that’s what happens in partnership, your decision, what goes on in your life, how you show up in the business, it affects that other person.

And. That other person like casting, we give each other grace and that’s great. But at the end of the day, if you make a pretty big pivot in your life or a big decision outside the business, or want to change something like, you know, uh, you want to sell your shares in the company or something like what cast mentioned, like having those conversations of like, well, what is your exit strategy?

If you don’t have those conversations are afraid to have those conversations or. For me, didn’t have someone who like knew me so deeply to understand that it wasn’t that I was Done with the business. It was that I can’t do it like this anymore. And um, yeah, that’s what i’ll say to that 

Akua: Yeah, oh my gosh, that is just so so true and even earlier I thought of it was like a viral Uh clip of brunette brown when she was talking about again marriage Have you guys seen that one where she just is like marriage isn’t 50 50, right?

Like some days i’m at 10 and you need to carry the 90 and I mean, I feel like this totally applies Um to this as well. You know what I mean? And I think that’s amazing, honestly. And you can just tell, like, there’s just no ego between the two of you, right? Like, it’s truly, you guys put each other first and honor each other in whatever season of life that you’re in.

And you’re like, Hey, like, I know you’re not here, but like, I’m going to pick this up now and vice versa. And then also too, I think that’s just so important. It’s so beautiful how Cassie, you gave shade that space to figure things out, right? Like, and where now that has led to where you have leaned into something that brings you joy that has led you into a new season of growth in your business.

And I love that. I love that you guys are still individuals and then are still coming together to still run this business, but you honor each other in your journey as individuals, even in your personal life to come back and to make a more sustainable, stronger business. And even just, again, of like, Yeah, that’s fine if things are all business, but life and like literally we are multi faceted human beings.

I say this all the time and like there’s just no way how you can’t blend personal and business together, right? And so I think I love that you guys have truly and it has not been easy But have really found a beautiful way that makes it truly work for both of you and that is amazing. And so as you’re now going, like you just mentioned, you’re in this new season of growth.

What are you excited about, especially in your partnership with how things are going to be looking like in this new season for you? 

Shay: Yeah. So in this new season, we are serving in a totally different way. So, um, as I mentioned, we, we started our company, we grew our company, um, with courses. We, over time we added multiple different courses to serve in this Way.

But, um, come the pandemic, the landscape really changed. So at first it was so great. You know, we were there, we, women were messaging us. I’ve got furloughed. Like, how do I do this? I’m ready to go all in. And we got to step up in that way and serve in a really big capacity during that year of 2020. And so many women started businesses and it was so exciting to see them be able to have that.

You know, uh, freedom and a bit more stability. I know people don’t say entrepreneurship is stable, but I think that, you know, during that time, that was like the stable option. And so, um, that was like really fulfilling, really serving in that way was what was needed in the industry, in the market. But then what I started to notice over like the coming years was obviously there was a lot more content being created online and there we were working from home.

So remote work was understood now, which was great. Cause that was kind of a barrier that we would run into. So not having that barrier anymore, it was fantastic. You know, we have this large community and we were able to meet that need. Um, but like I said, there was a lot more content being produced on, um, YouTube for free that we’re teaching the skills or similar stuff that we were teaching.

And there was, you know, a lot of people were not needing to learn the skills anymore because they were now looking at their corporate job and saying, Oh, I actually have skills. Cause that was a big point for us was that we taught tech skills, uh, website design skills and graphic design skills so that someone could sell those as their, Services in a business and back before everyone kind of went remote.

That was sort of always the question, like, well, what do I offer services? So now, you know, people understood they could take and transition from corporate into having their own business. And there was a lot of free resources. So we kind of started seeing, um, a drop off, I would say, in like completion rates.

And so I started talking to our audience and I said, you know, what’s going on here? Like, you know, our completion rates were super high and the conversations I just got in there. I started DMing people. We have really, we had really close relationships with our community because we had You know, we, we, oh, we talked to them.

We did meetups. We had Facebook groups for them. We were very much involved and put a lot of time and energy into meeting them where they were at. So it was really easy for me to just pop in and have like a real conversation. So I just started messaging and asking and saying, what’s going on. And people really shared that, you know, they, they just were inundated with So many options.

They were taking so many courses. Now they were trying so many different things. They were seeing so many different strategies now to, to kind of, you know, get rich quick online. How do I like get into this industry? So there was a lot of that, just a lot of noise. And so they would get really distracted.

And then the second thing I heard was that there really lacked. The accountability and like the customization to like, you know, they would get stuck on like a question and they really couldn’t move forward because they wanted to know how it would be customized to that. Because again, the landscape changed.

So people were really feeling like there was just so many. Businesses and in like the, in a, in the service that they wanted to offer. And they really couldn’t figure out what maybe their unique selling point was like, that’s something you really need to talk through with someone or because they were just inundated, they would have shiny object syndrome that, you know, if they got stuck and they couldn’t get a question answered, like you can answer a question on an email or Facebook groups or even a live Q and a, but it’s not really.

It’s, it’s not the same as like really sitting with someone like this and diving in with them and, and, and being able as a coach to ask like deeper questions, to really understand what their roadblock is. And so it was like a lot of accountability. They were like, I just need someone to like, hold my hand through this, have deadlines and with courses, they were self paced, which was, you know, that was what everybody wanted and was the easiest way to consume courses.

Um, you know, when we created those. And so when I heard this feedback. I asked, well, how can, I think we sent out a survey and basically asked, like, how can we serve you? What, how can we help you launch that business or grow your business or what stage of business are you at? Cause also what I found out was, all of our courses were for, um, starting out.

So launching a business or starting out with finding and landing clients and this sort of entry point. Right. But we have now had some, students for five, six years at this point. And they were saying, Hey, well, actually I don’t, I don’t need any of your courses because I actually need help scaling my business, growing my business.

Um, I’m getting really burnt out. I don’t know how to hire. Um, like I’m not sure like how to change like my pricing or my products and service. I don’t really look at my finances. And they shared this after I asked for help. Probing questions, you know, they, they weren’t all just like, here’s all my problems, you know?

So, um, if you’re doing market research, you know, I ask smart questions and I found this stuff out and I thought, Oh my gosh, we have this audience of, of people that want to know how we grew our business. And I was like, we don’t teach that in a course. And I think it’s, for me, I felt like. Well, I would ask some deeper questions.

I wanted to know them to be able to really understand their business model. And again, you can’t really get that in a course. So what we decided to do was, um, you know, we, we decided that the serving women in the course model was no longer the way that we felt called to serve that no longer really was working for them.

And the industry had changed so much that I felt, you know, it just to create more courses, I felt like they could go get. That information I would provide and of course they could go and get that now from, you know, YouTube or other resources. And yes, I could teach it differently. Yes. I can put in a course.

Like I have nothing against courses. I love them, but I really felt like that wasn’t, it didn’t feel right to create a new course or to continue, you know, updating and, and adding to the ones that we already had. So we decided that. To start experimenting, we still kept the courses and we, you know, continue to serve in that way for a short period of time, but we didn’t take any like new enrollments.

And we started experimenting with these, uh, these women I was talking about, you know, I invited them to do some one on one coaching with me. We created a membership and serve them in a way that had group coaching calls that had group workshops. And I started to see, okay, well, can I serve in this way? And are they getting results in this way?

And it was also during that. That tough period of time for me where I was feeling really disconnected. You know, you can, you can know all your, your members digitally and on Facebook for sure, or you can, you can get to know them, but through the screen, when I was one on one coaching, that was just lighting me up so much.

And it was really, um, I didn’t realize how much I liked to. Get into a problem like give me a problem. I want to solve it I want to solve it with your vision in mind though versus just telling you a general strategy that might solve this problem for you and that’s really how just through experimentation and keeping it like we didn’t come out and just and Change all our messaging, change all our branding, launch the new product layer that we have.

We didn’t do that. We don’t, we don’t teach that. We did it through experimentation. We started, we started with our scale with Purpose Mastermind for that group of women who had been with us for so long in our courses and they were ready to scale like past that six figure mark with these, you know, These, these fresh new problems that I got to solve and, and we got to do that in a group coaching format.

We did a retreat. So that’s in that program. So we get to meet them in person and I just get so fulfilled by that. And I feel like they have such, um, faster business growth too, from coming in and that’s just like deep diving into their business with them in person. And then continuing that coaching throughout the program.

And that went so well that we decided to, um, then I was hearing from the other men from other people, I continue to have conversations like, I still want to learn how to start a business. Are you going to create another course to start a business? And so we decided to create a program for them because we, if you want it from us, like I want to serve you, but I wanted to do it in a better way.

A different way this time, because the landscape had changed so much. And so that’s where we kind of, we created a hybrid. So it’s lesson content, it’s group coaching, and it’s a short eight week program. So it has that accountability. It has that, here’s what you need to do. Make these businesses. Decisions, chat them out with us, make sure it aligns with your vision, and you’re going to launch a business by the end of those eight weeks.

And that’s really how our new product ladder, so to speak, really came to life from experimentation and listening to our audience, and then also asking ourselves or for myself specifically was I needed a different way of serving to feel that connection again to the mission and the vision. And it was.

Really exciting. And now we are scaling our programs. We are adding new things in this way. Um, we’re coming up with new ideas. I feel like reinvigorated by the vision. And I feel the same way I felt with that tingly feeling at the beginning of starting Buccaloose Bombshells, where you’re just like, Ooh, like this is it.

And so. I’m excited about that, but yeah, 

Akua: I love that. Cassie, is there anything else that you would like to add as well? 

Cassie: Gosh, it’s so cool to hear. Yeah. The journey I wish, you know, for anybody listening who I think is maybe in a similar season, just like leaning into the fact that that took like two years, you know, like 

Akua: two years of our 10 

Cassie: years in business.

Right. And like, Not only did it take two years, like it wasn’t like we sat down and had a roadmap and then went after it. And I think that was really different from how we have tackled our goals in the past. 

Shay: Like 

Cassie: there have been many times where we’ve sat down and we’re like, what’s the punch list of goals and like, let’s get after it, you know, I think that was just like, kind of, you know, Organic to how we like to work.

And I think this season of business has been so different and it’s been, it’s been a little bit slower, but I think it’s been more intentional. And I would say slower just to like, really think through the experiments on different levels. And it’s also given us a lot more freedom to try things like Shane and I are both, I would say recovering perfectionist.

Like we. We like to do things well, you know? And so the idea to do something and just see how it goes and analyze it, and then, you know, maybe not do it again 

Shay: has 

Cassie: been in a really backwards way for me, especially as a creative, like very freeing. You know, I think we can. As we grew our business and, you know, hit multiple checkpoints and revenue, 1 million, 3 million.

I think we started putting extra pressure on ourselves to like, create the best next thing and to make. All decisions without messing up and having the perfect product ladder and just like I think this natural tendency to be perfectionist just like grew into this like monster and so when shay was talking about the last two years like we have really Changed the way we’ve approached business, and it has given us so much freedom to try things and experiment and to just Enjoy that season of just like, I don’t know, this sounds fun.

And this sounds like right now. And then let’s analyze that. And if this sticks, then like, let’s make this better. And I think this, this focus as well on, um, like Shay was sharing, being able to have, you know, a roster of clients. Like. We’ve served over 10, 000 students in our online courses. That is a heck of a lot of women.

And I’m so grateful for them, but I only know a hand. I can only name a handful, you know, like I know our students spotlights and we’ve did our best to follow along and follow with them. Now I can tell you, we have a roster of 35 clients. I know. Like everything that’s going on, like we know the ins and outs of the product ladder, we know their cash flows, we know their desires and vision for their business.

And like that, I think when we really boiled it down to like, how do we redevelop the vision for Bucket List Bombshells that serves in the way we want to serve, it came back to like, Shay was sharing this original desire to be like. We want to empower women in business and I want to know you. I want to see the ins and outs.

I want to follow your progress over a year and a half. You know, I don’t want to just like see a post in Facebook, you know, like we want to be in there with you. And so, yeah, it’s just been a really, really eyeopening, but also like a really positive experience. It’s very easy, I think, or much easier to look in retrospect.

Um, and I like, oh man, I am grateful for retrospect because I will tell you Akua, like, yeah, there were times where we were just like, none is like, we’re not doing it the right way and, or like right way for us, but we have no other vision and none of this makes sense. And this is also our livelihood. So like question mark, question mark, question mark, you know, like, and it’s just And so like it’s just happened over the process that Shay shared and I’m just so grateful to Have this experience and to like trust the process You know, we talk to our clients about this as well.

Like when they’re going through challenging seasons like What is the next step, you know, like how can you Just do something that sounds of interest because I also think lack of motion can paralyze you And you just get stuck. We’ve been stuck in overthinking and rethinking and it’s just like I don’t know.

None, none of the pieces make sense. And so for us, like just taking one step in a direction and analyzing it, and then maybe taking the second step or deciding to step to the right, step to the left, like that has gotten us to this, you know, two years down the line. And, um, With a whole new vision and product ladder that has very organically and very intentionally come from us and not from looking at anybody else.

And that is also mind blowing to me because I love listening to podcasts. I am a super fan of. This podcast, the conversations that you’ve had, I love your energy. And just like the questions that you ask and like, there’s so much inspiration to be had, but I think there’s also another time sometimes where you just need to like, cut out all the noise.

That’s what I did for basically two years and got real with myself. Like I’m the only one that wakes up on a Monday morning and runs this business. And my life partner, Ben, he, in a very challenging season told me like, If you aren’t enjoying the business, like, why are you doing it? And like, it was a very shocking, I had never had anybody question, like, why are you running this business?

Like, why do it? But it became so real. And I realized like. Why am I doing it? You know, why am I doing it? And nobody gets to answer that except for myself. And so really digging deep for two years and being like, not looking at anybody else’s product letter, not looking at how other people have scaled the business, not even really looking at the industry, just going with like, what we know, what we believe, what our audience wants, how we like to serve.

What we’ve done and we didn’t like, like, we know we don’t like to serve this way. We know that these boundaries aren’t working. Like, you know, I was very burnt out from marketing. Like that was my like, 100 percent job. We were launching, like we were in constant launch cycles. That was exhausting. And so, yeah, just like knowing all of that.

And I don’t know, it’s, it’s crazy to just see how organically and it has Transcribed by https: otter. ai All come about over the past two years. So I don’t know, I guess just further sharing the nuance of what she shared and like, it sounds like a perfect roadmap and, and it does. It was so perfectly explained.

Like you shared exactly what’s happened in two years and we navigate the messiness with our clients and like, it’s. Gosh, it’s got so, it’s so multifaceted, so. 

Akua: So multifaceted, and I just love that. Like, I love that you guys just really gave us that glimpse into that messiness, because I think that’s what a lot of business owners need to see, um, of like, okay, yes, we have these successful businesses, but it took us two years.

To really figure out, to really find something that really aligns with us and really fuels us and sets us on fire. And I just think of a previous conversation with, uh, Shea Cochran, and she’s always, and it’s always reminds me, because I’ve literally taken that, and I always say to myself, like, what she said of, nobody’s going to save you in your business.

You gotta, it’s a hard pill to swallow of like, even when, but you said Cassie with your, your partner, Ben, like question, like, you don’t have to do this. It’s like, Ooh, like, you know, it just, it really does put things into reality of like, this is truly up to me with the reality that I would like to create for my life and my business.

Like it’s truly up to me and you have to take some type of Self accountability in some capacity and really do that hard work, that inner work, um, to be able to show up well in your business. And so I absolutely love that. And I just agree with everything. And this conversation has just been so, so good.

Like I have loved talking with both of you and I think you guys have shared just number one. Thank you so much for your transparency of like just being partners in business and just being so open. And so a question that we love to end with, with every episode is, what do you think is the biggest differentiator between the businesses that succeed and the ones that fail?

Shaya, I’ll have you go first. 

Shay: Yeah. I would say that, um, well Cass and I were talking about this before the podcast, and so I would say that we both agree that it’s resilience. And we can both add to, you know, what that looks like, but I would say that resilience for me looks like just allowing that, allowing yourself to fail.

It was really hard for me as a perfectionist to admit, you know, the very few times, maybe even the only one time I did admit to failing. But you look back and you’re like, okay, there’s dips, there’s lows, there’s highs. Like, but getting back up, you know, it doesn’t, that I think shows the longevity of a business is getting back up and you don’t have to, it’s not getting back up and replicating what you’re doing, it’s getting back up and saying, I’m going to do it differently, or I’m going to keep some things and ditch the rest, or I’m going to, you know, change because if you’re reaching that point, or you see something and it failed, it just like, it’s, it’s It just means it’s data.

It’s just information. It’s just, um, you know, don’t keep what it’s called. Like insanity is like doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Like, yeah, I really believe. Cause I, I think that I got stuck in some of that, but one time, you know, I was like, It worked in the past. Why will it not work now?

And just trying to repeat something over and over again without really taking a look at why it’s not working or, you know, and I feel like that could be like a lot of different things and just being resilient and resourceful and saying, okay, I’m going to take some time off or I’m going to try things differently, or I’m going to stop just repeating this.

And I’m, or I’m going to have conversations with my audience or myself And decide, you know, what that new vision looks like. So that’s what I would say in terms of, of what I think differentiates, like, successful businesses, business owners, I guess. I know I took the answer, Casper, if you wanted to add anything.

Cassie: No, you’re good. You’re good. Yeah, I think just like being resilient and really trying to, Find joy in the process of like adapting. And I mean, after 12 years in business, like I can honestly say like the industry changes, you change as a business owner, the just technology changes, the world changes, your target audience shifts and grows and.

I have a friend of mine who’s a very successful business owner. And one time I was working at a coworking space and I was very frustrated with something. And he was like, Cassie, like what’s going on? I’m like, just like, this isn’t working and that’s not working. And this I’m very aware of things I don’t like.

I’ve noticed this about myself and I’m just, it’s very clear when things are frustrating me. And he was like, That’s the best part. Like that’s the best part of entrepreneurship. Like it’s always changing, you know, and you’re trying different things and you test it out. And it’s just like, it’s not always the same and that’s why you love it.

And I think that was just like such a. Light bulb moment for me to be like, Hey, I think this is the reality of entrepreneurship. And if I’m not hopping on board to like, enjoy the journey and like, yes, we talked about the downs and like, those are not fun, but like the other seasons, like enjoy the journey of trying things out and testing things and things changing and just like developing a new vision, like all of that is always.

continue to be a work in progress. You know, I don’t know how long we’ll continue to be in business, but for the next 10, 20 years, like we’re still on this journey to keep learning. And so, I don’t know. I really think those who are successful entrepreneurs as well that I’ve met have not only been resilient, but have also been like, you know, This is such a fun journey.

Like I’m so passionate about continuing, trying to figure it out. I think we can lose the joy sometimes, but it’s there, right? The essence is there. And I really do think at the end of the day, like I love business. I’m like, I don’t know. God made me to be a business woman. Like, I just, I love it. I love chatting conversations about business.

And sometimes that’s, there’s a reason why you burn out sometimes as a business owner. There’s a reason why on a Saturday morning. I just bought a whiteboard and I’m like, I wanted to write out my product letter, you know? And so I think the joy in it and not just like waking up and it being a task. Cause I think that is kind of a recipe for not really a great, like you said, like you’re the one that gets to show up and do your business.

And so I think if it sounds like a task day in and day out, I think that there’s probably an end point there. 

Akua: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I could listen to both of you talk for hours. I think this is the interview where I like literally have not said much. And I, I’m a very chatty. So in the best way, like in the best way you guys have shared, like, I have just loved this conversation.

Like everything I’m like, Oh my gosh. Like, yes, yes. Like everything. I’ve just been nodding my head up and down because it’s just so good. And I think so many business owners need to to hear this. And so both of you, sorry, and it was definitely not meant to be a shady comment. I just was like, Oh my gosh, like everything you guys are always sharing is just pure gold.

It’s just, it’s so, so needed. And like, I just even myself realized I’m like, I needed this conversation myself. You know what I mean? And so. This has been wonderful. And truly, thank you both so much for being on the show. And so for our audience, we want to support you. Let us know where we can find you. Um, we’re at bucket list to bombshells.

It’s a bucket list bombshells. com. Not me taking it over for you. Tell me where they can find you. My bad. I was like bucket list bombshells. You guys find them here. My bad. Okay. You guys go. I love it. 

Shay: You’re like our cheerleader, our promo girl. I know. I’m 

Akua: like, yes, find them here. Okay. Sorry. Go on. 

Shay: Yes. At bucket list bombshells.

com you will find our. Programs right now, we are going through a rebrand, really exciting. So you’ll find our two programs, uh, scale with purpose mastermind. If you’re looking to grow and scale your business, or if you’re looking to launch a business, a bucket list, bombshells launch camp can be found on there, um, but you can also follow us on Instagram.

I’m in those DMS. So if you message me, I’ll be in there. I’ll be asking you questions. We’ll be chatting like this. Um, so you can come on and that’s just at. Bucket list bombshells. Very straightforward. Very simple. So come say hi, uh, message me in there. We’ve got lots of like resources I can point you towards if you want to pop in there and just let me know, you know, what do you need right now?

Um, as it relates to business, uh, growing a business, scaling a business, launching a business, pop your question to me and I’m sure I have a resource for you. So that would be probably the best place to, so I can share more with everybody here. 

Akua: Yes. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you both Cassie and Shay. I just so, so good.

I appreciate you both so much and for everybody tuning in until next time. That ends our episode of the independent business podcast. Everything we’ve discussed today can be found at podcast. honeybook. com. Head to our website to access for show notes, relevant links, and all of the resources that you need to level up.

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